46 replies to this topic

[strangebrewer]

I've got a local supply of 55 gallon food grade HDPE barrels that I'm considering for use as big fermenters. These were used to transport human consumable foods so no worries about it being used to transport caustics or anything. Catch is they only have two 2" holes in the top. Anybody else using these for fermenters? I'm considering building a high pressure washing wand/keg cleaning contraption that I think would be able to handle cleaning out the non visually inspect-able parts of these barrels. Thoughts?

[MtnBrewer]

Here's a pic of the containers SB is asking about:

[SchwanzBrewer]

The lids are removable right? I think that would be awesome for brewing a barrel. I could only dream of having 45-50 gallons at once!The only problem would be maintaining fermentation temps. I don't know for sure (Basser could probably answer this), but i would think that the temperature rise (maybe just the delta required) would be higher since the thermal mass increases so much. So instead of being able to leave this in your basement at 55 deg or 60 deg, you would need 45-50 degrees constantly to maintain ale temps during fermentation.Also, you better have a really nice trolly cart to lift that bad boy and move it around.Cheers,Rich

[ScottS]

Also, you better have a really nice trolly cart to lift that bad boy and move it around.

Are they even strong enough to move when full?

[CaptRon]

The lids are removable right? I think that would be awesome for brewing a barrel. I could only dream of having 45-50 gallons at once!The only problem would be maintaining fermentation temps. I don't know for sure (Basser could probably answer this), but i would think that the temperature rise (maybe just the delta required) would be higher since the thermal mass increases so much. So instead of being able to leave this in your basement at 55 deg or 60 deg, you would need 45-50 degrees constantly to maintain ale temps during fermentation.Also, you better have a really nice trolly cart to lift that bad boy and move it around.Cheers,Rich

I think it would be opposite. I would think that the larger the thermal mass the more tolerant it is going to be to temp swings. So it would have to sit in a cooler/warmer environment for a much longer time before it has any effect of more than just a degree or two. But I'm only educated by public schools, what do I know.

[CaptRon]

Are they even strong enough to move when full?

That begs another question. To swirl or not to swirl?

[MtnBrewer]

I think it would be opposite. I would think that the larger the thermal mass the more tolerant it is going to be to temp swings. So it would have to sit in a cooler/warmer environment for a much longer time before it has any effect of more than just a degree or two. But I'm only educated by public schools, what do I know.

Other way around. The heat has a harder time escaping. Witness:Heh...twice in one week that I've used that pic.Also, I don't think the lids are removable.

[MakeMeHoppy]

I think it would be opposite. I would think that the larger the thermal mass the more tolerant it is going to be to temp swings. So it would have to sit in a cooler/warmer environment for a much longer time before it has any effect of more than just a degree or two. But I'm only educated by public schools, what do I know.

I think he means during active fermentation that it could create a lot more heat than a 5 gallon batch. You are correct in that the larger thermal mass by itself would tolerate temperature swings better.

[SchwanzBrewer]

I think it would be opposite. I would think that the larger the thermal mass the more tolerant it is going to be to temp swings. So it would have to sit in a cooler/warmer environment for a much longer time before it has any effect of more than just a degree or two. But I'm only educated by public schools, what do I know.

It is more resistant, yes, but you have an internal engine acting as a heat source and an insulator surrounding it. Its much harder for the ambient air to cool the beer because it is resisting temp change (due to larger thermal mass) AND generating heat. The thing I don't know is whether heat generation per unit volume is the same as in a 5 gallon batch. That I would think is a function of the yeast, but my bet is that volume matters. So I think you need cooler than normal ferm temps outside to counteract the things I mentioned above. Once it stops fermenting it will eventually become isothermal (All same temp in the chamber as in the vessel).Cheers,Rich

[CaptRon]

Other way around. The heat has a harder time escaping. Witness:Heh...twice in one week that I've used that pic.Also, I don't think the lids are removable.

I would think you would want to use a bigger blow off tube than that. Like a 1" tube or something. I see a small tube and a little airlock on the top of that. I could just imagine that little airlock going crazy with that much co2 to run through it from that much beer. lolWhen I went on a tour at Russian River, I was surprised to see a huge blowoff tube coming out of the top of a big stainless fermenter and going in to a big garbage can that was full of krausen just bubbling away:

Edited by badogg, 19 May 2010 - 02:18 PM.

[strangebrewer]

Other way around. The heat has a harder time escaping. Witness:Heh...twice in one week that I've used that pic.Also, I don't think the lids are removable.

Yes but before you give up the incident see who remembers it and the perpetrator.The lids are not removable. The only way in and out is a pair of 2" holes in the top. While the greater mass will be more tolerant of temperature swings I'm planning to be able to put them in a 50°F ambient space once the fermentation is rockin and monitor it so I don't get them too cool. Keep in mind these would be primary fermenters so at most they would have 30-40 gallons in them so there is adequate space for krausen.

[MtnBrewer]

I would think you would want to use a bigger blow off tube than that. Like a 1" tube or something. I see a small tube and a little airlock on the top of that. I could just imagine that little airlock going crazy with that much co2 to run through it from that much beer. lol

I don't think it had a blowoff tube.

[MtnBrewer]

Yes but before you give up the incident see who remembers it and the perpetrator.

Good idea. 100 Internets to the first person that can name whose fermenter that was. (If the person in question happens to see this, zip it.) Another 100 if you can tell me the circumstances surrounding the epic failure.

[strangebrewer]

When I went on a tour at Russian River, I was surprised to see a huge blowoff tube coming out of the top of a big stainless fermenter and going in to a big garbage can that was full of krausen just bubbling away:

I have a video from my tour through Troeg's brewery in PA of a blowoff bucket. Big hose coming off a giant conical and the blow off going through the water in the bucket sounded like muffled machine gun fire. It was awesome.

[SchwanzBrewer]

Other way around. The heat has a harder time escaping. Witness:Heh...twice in one week that I've used that pic.Also, I don't think the lids are removable.

Holy cow! That's quite the eruption. Was that from a group brew or something?I wouldn't use them if you can't remove the lids. That would be a giant pain in the butt to clean.Usually those barrels are pretty thick plastic and can be moved, so that wouldn't be my main concern.Cheers,Rich

[DaBearSox]

I would think you would want to use a bigger blow off tube than that. Like a 1" tube or something. I see a small tube and a little airlock on the top of that. I could just imagine that little airlock going crazy with that much co2 to run through it from that much beer. lolWhen I went on a tour at Russian River, I was surprised to see a huge blowoff tube coming out of the top of a big stainless fermenter and going in to a big garbage can that was full of krausen just bubbling away:

A lot of breweries probably do that...when I toured Avery they also had that goin on...and the small 7 barrel ones at Mountain Sun in BOulder all have one too.

[CaptRon]

I would think you would want to use a bigger blow off tube than that. Like a 1" tube or something. I see a small tube and a little airlock on the top of that. I could just imagine that little airlock going crazy with that much co2 to run through it from that much beer. lolWhen I went on a tour at Russian River, I was surprised to see a huge blowoff tube coming out of the top of a big stainless fermenter and going in to a big garbage can that was full of krausen just bubbling away:

Oh, BTW - I think that is Vinnie's ass in the background.

[MtnBrewer]

When I went on a tour at Russian River, I was surprised to see a huge blowoff tube coming out of the top of a big stainless fermenter and going in to a big garbage can that was full of krausen just bubbling away:

I saw something very similar at Odell's a few years ago.

[SchwanzBrewer]

Good idea. 100 Internets to the first person that can name whose fermenter that was. (If the person in question happens to see this, zip it.) Another 100 if you can tell me the circumstances surrounding the epic failure.

I don't know who's fermenter it was, but I can see all they did was put a little air lock in the top. I would also guess that its missing a waste belt to keep the lid on tight (worm driven belt)? And possibly overfilled?Cheers,Rich

[MtnBrewer]

I don't know whose fermenter it was, but I can see all they did was put a little air lock in the top. I would also guess that its missing a waste belt to keep the lid on tight (worm driven belt)? And possibly overfilled?

Waste belt? There was a little beer wasted when the lid blew but other than that, nobody wastes beer around here. There was a ring holding the lid on and the ring had a screw that was tightened as tight as it would go. But I'm starting to give away too much info.Don't know how full it was. There was 20 gallons in there but I don't know what the capacity of the bucket is.No Internets for you!