79 replies to this topic

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

now the bad news - I don't think I got any fermentation in the bottle. I just decanted off enough starter to take a gravity reading and the gravity doesn't look like it dropped much (if at all). Maybe the bottle I had was too old (probably about 10 or 11 months).

[MtnBrewer]

now the bad news - I don't think I got any fermentation in the bottle. I just decanted off enough starter to take a gravity reading and the gravity doesn't look like it dropped much (if at all). Maybe the bottle I had was too old (probably about 10 or 11 months).

It's quite possible. I've had that happen a couple of times. That's too bad.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

It's quite possible. I've had that happen a couple of times. That's too bad.

yeah - at least it was only about 40g of DME. not a huge loss other than time spent. so now I'm considering if I should try this again maybe with 2 bottles or if I should just go with the wyeast forbidden fruit and hope it's the same stuff.

[MtnBrewer]

yeah - at least it was only about 40g of DME. not a huge loss other than time spent. so now I'm considering if I should try this again maybe with 2 bottles or if I should just go with the wyeast forbidden fruit and hope it's the same stuff.

I don't know if it's the same or not but you'll end up with a good beer, no question about it.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

I don't know if it's the same or not but you'll end up with a good beer, no question about it.

you are a fan of the forbidden fruit? interested to hear what you think...

[MtnBrewer]

you are a fan of the forbidden fruit? interested to hear what you think...

It's a very good yeast that leans more towards the bubble gum flavors rather than phenolic. I generally go for more of a balance and 3787 fits my preference better. However, I have used it on some of the Belgians that don't really fit into a defined style and have gotten good results with it.

[Jimmy James]

Zymo - you (or anyone else) have insight into whether the Hennepin has the primary yeast in the bottle? It's been a while but that's always one of my favorite beers. If I were to follow suit and culture from the bottle I'd be interested in that one. I think you should try the Rare Vos again. It should work if you get a fresh enough bottle. The longer yeast are in a stationary phase, the greater the reduction in lifespan when you get them going again. Probably they just crapped out on you as they were dormant so long.

[siouxbrewer]

Zymo - you (or anyone else) have insight into whether the Hennepin has the primary yeast in the bottle? It's been a while but that's always one of my favorite beers. If I were to follow suit and culture from the bottle I'd be interested in that one. I think you should try the Rare Vos again. It should work if you get a fresh enough bottle. The longer yeast are in a stationary phase, the greater the reduction in lifespan when you get them going again. Probably they just crapped out on you as they were dormant so long.

I'd have to check but I'm pretty sure hennepin has the proprietary strain and one or two additional secondary yeasts for superattenuation. Sorta in the saison tradition.

[lowendfrequency]

I believe Hennepin is fermented with the same strain that Ommegang carbonates most of their beers with. However, I do not believe it to be their proprietary strain that they use for their Abbey ale. Ommegang is a multi-strain brewery with most of their yeasts being supplied from the Duvel Moortgat brewery.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

Zymo - you (or anyone else) have insight into whether the Hennepin has the primary yeast in the bottle? It's been a while but that's always one of my favorite beers. If I were to follow suit and culture from the bottle I'd be interested in that one. I think you should try the Rare Vos again. It should work if you get a fresh enough bottle. The longer yeast are in a stationary phase, the greater the reduction in lifespan when you get them going again. Probably they just crapped out on you as they were dormant so long.

yeah - i'm thinking about it. I mean, then I'd have to drink 2 bottles of rare vos

[Jimmy James]

I saw some interesting research recently that shed some light on the possible mechanisms by which yeast regain viability after being dormant for long periods of time. At any rate, it basically backs up what was said above - don't expect your starter/fermentation from bottle dregs to take off right away. The dormant yeast lose their ability to do much of anything but they can still reproduce in a limited fashion. The third generation (grand daughter) yeast have regained all their capabilities, and should start to reproduce in larger numbers. So basically, you have to wait for the yeast to go through a lag phase of reproduction where they can only reproduce a limited amount, then slowly start to build back up. I'd wait at least a week before dumping out the starter as if it was an older bottle you cultured from this could definitely take a while.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

I saw some interesting research recently that shed some light on the possible mechanisms by which yeast regain viability after being dormant for long periods of time. At any rate, it basically backs up what was said above - don't expect your starter/fermentation from bottle dregs to take off right away. The dormant yeast lose their ability to do much of anything but they can still reproduce in a limited fashion. The third generation (grand daughter) yeast have regained all their capabilities, and should start to reproduce in larger numbers. So basically, you have to wait for the yeast to go through a lag phase of reproduction where they can only reproduce a limited amount, then slowly start to build back up. I'd wait at least a week before dumping out the starter as if it was an older bottle you cultured from this could definitely take a while.

yeah - I took it back out of the fridge and I'll see what happens

[siouxbrewer]

I believe Hennepin is fermented with the same strain that Ommegang carbonates most of their beers with. However, I do not believe it to be their proprietary strain that they use for their Abbey ale. Ommegang is a multi-strain brewery with most of their yeasts being supplied from the Duvel Moortgat brewery.

Hmm... my copy of Farmhouse Ales says Hennepin uses the proprietary strain. There definitely seems to be another yeast in there to give it that character.

[lowendfrequency]

Hmm... my copy of Farmhouse Ales says Hennepin uses the proprietary strain. There definitely seems to be another yeast in there to give it that character.

When people talk about Ommegang's propriety strain, I assume they mean the house yeast used most often. That would be the strain they use for their Abbey, Rare Vos and 3 Philosophers as well as some of their seasonals and specialties. I've heard that their Witte strain is proprietary too. But then again, I always hear people say they use forbidden fruit and IMO the Witte is the ONLY beer they make that I'd believe that one for. The hennepin is DRY and spicy. Considerably more so than any of their other beers. The difference is so large, I refuse to believe that it is based on mash and ferm temps alone. That is as classic a Saison as they come. I'd be surprised if they weren't using a legitimate Saison strain. Randy himself said they use several strains provided by their parent company. I'd use that as a starting point for my research.

[MtnBrewer]

Part of the spiciness of Hennepin comes from ginger doesn't it?

[lowendfrequency]

Part of the spiciness of Hennepin comes from ginger doesn't it?

Yes, to be fair, I do believe it is spiced. I remember reading an article about Don Feinberg sneaking yeast back from Belgium back when he started Ommegang. I'll have to try and look that one up.Also, Ommegang's yeast is maintained by White Labs. They are guests of honor every year at the belgian brewfest. I once got accosted there by Chris White while he was hammered because I was wearing a White Labs polo. I wonder if it's part of their lineup, at least seasonally as a platinum strain?

[MtnBrewer]

Yes, to be fair, I do believe it is spiced. I remember reading an article about Don Feinberg sneaking yeast back from Belgium back when he started Ommegang. I'll have to try and look that one up.Also, Ommegang's yeast is maintained by White Labs. They are guests of honor every year at the belgian brewfest. I once got accosted there by Chris White while he was hammered because I was wearing a White Labs polo. I wonder if it's part of their lineup, at least seasonally as a platinum strain?

You know, when this thread started the thought crossed my mind that it was available from someone as a seasonal. So I bet you're right about that.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

My link

WLP410 Belgian Wit II Moortgat Brouwerij (via Ommegang?)

??

[Jimmy James]

My link??

actually funny that you dug that up. I once used that strain for a wit, then pitched the slurry onto a Saison that turned out awesome. That could well be the one.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

actually funny that you dug that up. I once used that strain for a wit, then pitched the slurry onto a Saison that turned out awesome. That could well be the one.

I'm assuming they use a diff strain for their wit versus Rare Vos and the others. Does this sound correct?