Bottle Cleaning
#21
Posted 08 April 2010 - 03:56 AM
#22
Posted 08 April 2010 - 08:20 AM
Edited by Stout_fan, 08 April 2010 - 08:21 AM.
#23
Posted 08 April 2010 - 09:12 AM
this is quite interesting...I do make starters (simple/hand swirling no stir plate) but I have been trying to ferment on the low side...Also, cold ferment/low pitch rate can create phenolic beers. Some British yeast strains will produce medicinal/bandaid flavors if fermented too cold, or if underpitched. Manchester Ale from WLs comes to mind.
#24
Posted 08 April 2010 - 09:29 AM
Good catch. Polyphenols =/= phenolsPolyphenols?
#25
Posted 08 April 2010 - 02:17 PM
Polyphenolic off "flavors" are usually associated with astringency caused by extracting tannins from grain husks or vegetative hop material (leaves, steams, etc). Astringency is not a flavor, it is a mouth feel caused by the precipitation of polyphenols on the palate. DBS mentioned a spicy, band-aid flavor which is typically a yeast byproduct produced during fermentation.Good catch. Polyphenols =/= phenols
#26
Posted 08 April 2010 - 03:11 PM
Exactly. I was trying to figure out how oversparging could lead to phenolic flavors.Polyphenolic off "flavors" are usually associated with astringency caused by extracting tannins from grain husks or vegetative hop material (leaves, steams, etc). Astringency is not a flavor, it is a mouth feel caused by the precipitation of polyphenols on the palate. DBS mentioned a spicy, band-aid flavor which is typically a yeast byproduct produced during fermentation.
#27
Posted 08 April 2010 - 04:00 PM
Yeah, I'm not really challenging the opinion from the study cards. Just thought possibly it slipped in that way. I'm certainly not Mr. Knowitall........ Maybe Sherman though....Exactly. I was trying to figure out how oversparging could lead to phenolic flavors.
#28
Posted 08 April 2010 - 08:25 PM
Actually, polyphenols ARE phenols. Also, polyphenol describes a group of chemical substances, not just a single substance.Here's another bit I found (under medicinal/chlorophenolic): https://www.bjcp.org...Beer_faults.pdfFor those that don't judge, that's the document judges are given along with style guidelines when judging beer. I don't know too much about the detailed chemistry behind phenolic flavors in beer, but if the BJCP supports this idea, then I'm inclined to believe them.Good catch. Polyphenols =/= phenols
#29
Posted 08 April 2010 - 08:31 PM
By that same logic starches are sugars. Do they taste sweet?Actually, polyphenols ARE phenols.
Being a polymer, that would almost have to be true wouldn't it?Also, polyphenol describes a group of chemical substances, not just a single substance.
But chlorophenols are very different from tannins. You can get tannins from oversparging. You can't get chlorophenols from oversparging (as far as I know).Here's another bit I found (under medicinal/chlorophenolic): https://www.bjcp.org...Beer_faults.pdfFor those that don't judge, that's the document judges are given along with style guidelines when judging beer. I don't know too much about the detailed chemistry behind phenolic flavors in beer, but if the BJCP supports this idea, then I'm inclined to believe them.
#30
Posted 09 April 2010 - 08:46 AM
Well according to that beer faults pdf, one possible solution to get rid of a medicinal taste is to reduce astringency and grain husk sources. Astringency can be caused from oversparging. Whether or not this is actually the cause of the DaBearSox's problem, it is worth him looking into it as it can possibly help him make better beer.Also, I've had many phenolic beers that were also astringent.But chlorophenols are very different from tannins. You can get tannins from oversparging. You can't get chlorophenols from oversparging (as far as I know).
#31
Posted 09 April 2010 - 08:54 AM
#32
Posted 11 April 2010 - 11:45 AM
What is the storage situation for these beers, prior to sending off to comps? It seems IIRC I had some trouble on occasion with phenols where it was stored in the bottle and wasn't in a really dark stable cool area.would it makes sense that the phenolic flavors show up a little later...It seems like my fresh beers are winning medals but then the off flavors show up a few weeks down the road in another comp.but that might lead back to my judge discrepancies thread.
#33
Posted 12 April 2010 - 09:03 AM
They are stored in a basement room, so pretty stable, dark, and cool.What is the storage situation for these beers, prior to sending off to comps? It seems IIRC I had some trouble on occasion with phenols where it was stored in the bottle and wasn't in a really dark stable cool area.
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