32 replies to this topic

[DaBearSox]

Lets not make this about how kegging is better than bottling...ok? So a few of my past scoresheets have come back with phenolic notes...some noting spiciness but the big one was the band aid sorta of flavor...They were all pretty light and I cannot detect it in the beers that had it but it got me thinking. Usually the band-aide thing is a product of chlorine but I use campden tablets on my mash/sparge water....I have temp control for my fermentors and i keep a close eye on the stick on thermometers(which i have tested as pretty accurate)So what the h could I be doing....then it hit me...I soak my bottles in oxy clean to get all the gunk out and to dislodge the labels...Oxy clean I am pretty sure has chlorine...I rinse the bottles real well after soaking but my guess is not well enough...I am thinking I should probably switch to pbw or something which I don't think uses chlorine.

[strangebrewer]

I soak plenty of things in oxyclean to either de-label or de-gunk them and I've never had any comment of chlorine or bandaid off notes. I rinse thoroughly with hot water after any soak and then I sanitize with starsan. Starsan is my preferred sanitizer in general but in this case It takes the double roll of neutralizing any remaining oxyclean I may not have gotten off in the hot water rinse.Works for me at least.

[stellarbrew]

What I like to do with bottles after soaking them in OxyClean or PBW, is to rinse the inside of them thoroughly with a bottle washer nozzle screwed to the faucet spout. Then I run them for a cycle in the dishwasher, with the heated drying turned on. I feel like this rinses away any residue and sanitizes them very well.

[MtnBrewer]

I am thinking I should probably switch to pbw or something which I don't think uses chlorine.

I'm pretty sure there is no chlorine in OxyClean but I might be wrong.

What I like to do with bottles after soaking them in OxyClean or PBW, is to rinse the inside of them thoroughly with a bottle washer nozzle screwed to the faucet spout. Then I run them for a cycle in the dishwasher, with the heated drying turned on. I feel like this rinses away any residue and sanitizes them very well.

I used to use my dishwasher to sterilize them in the dry cycle but I never used the rinse cycle. The reason is that there can be little food particles in your dishwasher and these could get washed up into the bottles during the rinse. So I rinsed with a regular bottle washer and then put them in the dishwasher on dry cycle only.My current procedure is to soak the bottles in PBW, rinse with a jet spray type of thingy, let dry, then sanitize with SaniClean.

[DaBearSox]

hmmm...i guess it is more a solidified form of hydogen peroxide, I forgot where I herd it had chlorine....damnit where are my phenolics coming from....

[jasonrobertcohen]

hmmm...i guess it is more a solidified form of hydogen peroxide, I forgot where I herd it had chlorine....damnit where are my phenolics coming from....

Try a batch with store-bought water - eliminate your chlorinated/pot.meta-treated variable.jrc

[stellarbrew]

damnit where are my phenolics coming from....

Have you ruled out the yeast as a source? I have seemed to get an unpleasant phenolic character from S-04.Also, some people wil mistake certain hop flavors for phenolics. I've noticed that Fuggles used for flavoring additions can trick some palates into mis-percieving phenolics.

[DaBearSox]

Have you ruled out the yeast as a source? I have seemed to get an unpleasant phenolic character from S-04.Also, some people wil mistake certain hop flavors for phenolics. I've noticed that Fuggles used for flavoring additions can trick some palates into mis-percieving phenolics.

I have pretty much ruled out the yeast source as it was with 2112, 1450, S-05...hmm I guess the Porter and Cali Common both used NBs so maybe that is it...hmmmmMight have to try to water thing

[Slainte]

I doubt OxyClean is your issue. Even if it had chlorine in it (I don't think it does), you should be fine as long as you're rinsing out enough.What are you using to sanitize your bottles and caps?

[Slainte]

Try a batch with store-bought water - eliminate your chlorinated/pot.meta-treated variable.jrc

I doubt that is going to do anything. It's a well understand scientific fact that the method works, and it's pretty hard to screw up. If he was real curious though he could just pick up a chlorine test kit and see for himself.No reason to spend all of that time and money brewing a batch of beer with store bought water when it's not needed.

[DaBearSox]

I doubt OxyClean is your issue. Even if it had chlorine in it (I don't think it does), you should be fine as long as you're rinsing out enough.What are you using to sanitize your bottles and caps?

Bottles and caps are sanitized with Star SanThe bottles get a soak for a few minutes that set on a bottle tree that had been star san'd as well...

[Slainte]

I would look into your mashing/lautering practices.Do you test and adjust pH in the mash, and while you're lautering? Oversparging can cause phenolic flavors in beer...make sure your mash runoff doesn't rise above a pH of 6.0.

[DaBearSox]

I would look into your mashing/lautering practices.Do you test and adjust pH in the mash, and while you're lautering? Oversparging can cause phenolic flavors in beer...make sure your mash runoff doesn't rise above a pH of 6.0.

ahhhhhh....maybe that is itI use pH 5.2 buffer for the mash but do not test while lautering...i batch sparge and usually do a double sparge to get to my boil amount.

[MtnBrewer]

Oversparging can certainly result in astringency but I've never heard that it could cause phenolic flavors.

[DaBearSox]

would it makes sense that the phenolic flavors show up a little later...It seems like my fresh beers are winning medals but then the off flavors show up a few weeks down the road in another comp.but that might lead back to my judge discrepancies thread.

[djinkc]

Oversparging can certainly result in astringency but I've never heard that it could cause phenolic flavors.

I haven't either. Your procedure sounds pretty good. You're not tasting it - maybe you had some imaginative judges.........

[DaBearSox]

I haven't either. Your procedure sounds pretty good. You're not tasting it - maybe you had some imaginative judges.........

this also might be true...these specific beers have been entered in 3 different comps and had score sheets all over the place

[zymot]

I have problems with OxyClean. I have had it leave a film of white powder on glass that required additional elbow grease to remove.PBW is magic and worth it. PBW rinses clean. PBW is not the same as OxyClean, similar, but not the same. I find I can get effective results using much less than the dosage amount on the jar label.zymot

[Slainte]

Oversparging can certainly result in astringency but I've never heard that it could cause phenolic flavors.

I never heard of it either until I came across these "off flavor flashcards" a few weeks ago. I've read it in a few other places as well since then. Can't say I've ever experienced it myself.

[djinkc]

I never heard of it either until I came across these "off flavor flashcards" a few weeks ago. I've read it in a few other places as well since then. Can't say I've ever experienced it myself.

Polyphenols?