32 replies to this topic

[siouxbrewer]

Also, cold ferment/low pitch rate can create phenolic beers. Some British yeast strains will produce medicinal/bandaid flavors if fermented too cold, or if underpitched. Manchester Ale from WLs comes to mind.

[Stout_fan]

For high gravity/ special beers that I don't want on tap I bottle.I generally soak the labels off as I drink the commercial beers. I have a 64 oz. bladder buster cup that I keep near my kitchen sink, and after emptying a bottle, I let it soak for a day or three in water. Then I use a razor scraper to take the label off if it doesn't come off by itself.A SS scrubbie removes all the remaining glue / pieces of label. Then I just invert it to dry in the dishwasher.I collect a case or more.Come bottling day I throw the keg into the lagering fridge and use a beer gun.All that said, I sanitize all the bottles for a several minute soak in a 5 gal bucket of Star San.I pull them out and throw in the next batch.I then beer gun the batch I just removed from the Star San and cap them.Rinse and repeat (except I don't actually rinse)Never had a problem.

Edited by Stout_fan, 08 April 2010 - 08:21 AM.

[DaBearSox]

Also, cold ferment/low pitch rate can create phenolic beers. Some British yeast strains will produce medicinal/bandaid flavors if fermented too cold, or if underpitched. Manchester Ale from WLs comes to mind.

this is quite interesting...I do make starters (simple/hand swirling no stir plate) but I have been trying to ferment on the low side...

[MtnBrewer]

Polyphenols?

Good catch. Polyphenols =/= phenols

[siouxbrewer]

Good catch. Polyphenols =/= phenols

Polyphenolic off "flavors" are usually associated with astringency caused by extracting tannins from grain husks or vegetative hop material (leaves, steams, etc). Astringency is not a flavor, it is a mouth feel caused by the precipitation of polyphenols on the palate. DBS mentioned a spicy, band-aid flavor which is typically a yeast byproduct produced during fermentation.

[MtnBrewer]

Polyphenolic off "flavors" are usually associated with astringency caused by extracting tannins from grain husks or vegetative hop material (leaves, steams, etc). Astringency is not a flavor, it is a mouth feel caused by the precipitation of polyphenols on the palate. DBS mentioned a spicy, band-aid flavor which is typically a yeast byproduct produced during fermentation.

Exactly. I was trying to figure out how oversparging could lead to phenolic flavors.

[djinkc]

Exactly. I was trying to figure out how oversparging could lead to phenolic flavors.

Yeah, I'm not really challenging the opinion from the study cards. Just thought possibly it slipped in that way. I'm certainly not Mr. Knowitall........ Maybe Sherman though....

[Slainte]

Good catch. Polyphenols =/= phenols

Actually, polyphenols ARE phenols. Also, polyphenol describes a group of chemical substances, not just a single substance.Here's another bit I found (under medicinal/chlorophenolic): https://www.bjcp.org...Beer_faults.pdfFor those that don't judge, that's the document judges are given along with style guidelines when judging beer. I don't know too much about the detailed chemistry behind phenolic flavors in beer, but if the BJCP supports this idea, then I'm inclined to believe them.

[MtnBrewer]

Actually, polyphenols ARE phenols.

By that same logic starches are sugars. Do they taste sweet?

Also, polyphenol describes a group of chemical substances, not just a single substance.

Being a polymer, that would almost have to be true wouldn't it?

Here's another bit I found (under medicinal/chlorophenolic): https://www.bjcp.org...Beer_faults.pdfFor those that don't judge, that's the document judges are given along with style guidelines when judging beer. I don't know too much about the detailed chemistry behind phenolic flavors in beer, but if the BJCP supports this idea, then I'm inclined to believe them.

But chlorophenols are very different from tannins. You can get tannins from oversparging. You can't get chlorophenols from oversparging (as far as I know).

[Slainte]

But chlorophenols are very different from tannins. You can get tannins from oversparging. You can't get chlorophenols from oversparging (as far as I know).

Well according to that beer faults pdf, one possible solution to get rid of a medicinal taste is to reduce astringency and grain husk sources. Astringency can be caused from oversparging. Whether or not this is actually the cause of the DaBearSox's problem, it is worth him looking into it as it can possibly help him make better beer.Also, I've had many phenolic beers that were also astringent.

[DaBearSox]

this has turned out to be a great thread...lots of info....gracious!

[MyaCullen]

would it makes sense that the phenolic flavors show up a little later...It seems like my fresh beers are winning medals but then the off flavors show up a few weeks down the road in another comp.but that might lead back to my judge discrepancies thread.

What is the storage situation for these beers, prior to sending off to comps? It seems IIRC I had some trouble on occasion with phenols where it was stored in the bottle and wasn't in a really dark stable cool area.

[DaBearSox]

What is the storage situation for these beers, prior to sending off to comps? It seems IIRC I had some trouble on occasion with phenols where it was stored in the bottle and wasn't in a really dark stable cool area.

They are stored in a basement room, so pretty stable, dark, and cool.