28 replies to this topic

[Joe]

Thanks Joe. Yeah, I was actually having a similar conversation about that this morning and the other part of it is that more of the salts will make it into the primary if they're added to the brewpot than they would if they were added to the MT, apparently.

I think as long as you keep in mind the volume of water you're modifying, you're fine. If you add them to the MT (or really you could just add them to your strike and sparge water as well) then you are adding enough to raise both your strike and sparge water - so you have to add enough to get to the ppm you need for that amount of water. If adding to the boil, you add enough based on what you're finished volume is - 5 gallons or whatever. If you add to finished beer just realize that the salt will drive off some of the carbonation, so that is also going to change the flavor as well. It may be difficult to determine if the difference in flavor is a result of sulfate/chloride or carbonation differences, but I think it's worth playing around with.This gives me an idea - if you added 5 tablespoons of epsom salt to 5 gallons of ale - you might be able to market it as a detoxification/colon cleaning beer. That seems to be all the rage now a days...

[Big Nake]

This gives me an idea - if you added 5 tablespoons of epsom salt to 5 gallons of ale - you might be able to market it as a detoxification/colon cleaning beer. That seems to be all the rage now a days...

Hey, I like it. We can call it Express Train Pale Ale. It will have all of the best effects of beer, colon cleansers, laxatives and diet supplements! Oh yeah, TV infomercials, here I come!

[Big Nake]

Well, I made my MLPA this morning (7¼ lbs Maris Otter, 1 lb Crystal 60L, 12 oz wheat) mashed at 150° with 1/2 tsp CaCl and maybe a little over 1/2 tsp Magnesium Sulfate (epsom salt). I feel pretty good about it as an experiment and even though I'm not sure what to expect (if anything), I don't think it will be a failure. These additions bring my calcium to 82, magnesium to 28, sodium to 13, chloride 106 and sulfate to 78... all of which seems reasonable. The chloride-to-sulfate ratio is balanced. Someone gave me a link to a Powerpoint document about RA, water chemistry, etc. You guys know what I'm talking about? Some things it mentioned was "know your water", "know why you're modifying your water" and "if it's not broke don't fix it". I do know my water and I also know why I'm modifying it. That last one can't be answered until I've tasted this beer. It looked nice & clear going from brewpot to primary and a small sample didn't really taste any different than usual for this beer. More later. Thanks for the feedback everyone.

[Big Nake]

Kids, here's my latest head-scratcher. I just made a starter with WLP840 American Lager yeast yesterday and I plan to make a beer with it Tuesday or Wednesday next week. I'm going to make my Corner Tap Lager with it and after that I was envisioning a nice American Premium that looks like this...7.25 lbs Pilsner Malt2.00 lbs Munich Malt4 oz Carafoam1 oz Hallertau Tradition 5.3% for 60½ oz Hallertau 3.8% for 5 min½ oz Hallertau 3.8% for 1 minWhite Labs 840 American Lager yeastOG: 1.049, FG: 1.012, IBU: 25, SRM: 5, ABV: 4.8%I will mash a little lower, maybe 149° or so. I plan to use all filtered tap water for this beer. I punched "5" into the SRM box on JP's sheet. The results box shows my normal SRM range of 7 to 12 and a ratio of "very malty". I made salt additions of CaCl and Epsom Salt until the SRM range showed 5 to 10 and the ratio showed balanced. To get to that point, I needed ¾ tsp (approx 3 grams) of CaCl and 1 tsp Epsom Salt (approx 4 grams) which brought my numbers to: calcium 118, magnesium 45, alkalinity 113, sodium 13, chloride 170, sulfate 146. Do I just trust the sheet to guide me properly here? Do these numbers look reasonable for an American Premium kind of beer?

[Big Nake]

I can't help but think that with these thoughts of mash chemistry, I have somehow turned off the road of "beer-loving guy" and onto the road of pocket protector-wearing geekoid. That said, I continue to look at this topic, even in my sleep (not kidding). So I made my SRM 9 lager on Tuesday and all seemed to go well. I tasted the wort on the way from brewpot to primary and it didn't make me go blind, so that's a plus.Now, a question. My next 2 beers are going to be light in color. Next week, a cream ale with 1056 and the week after that, an American Lager with the WLP840 that is currently working on my amber lager I made earlier in the week. I decided that with my higher bicarbonate number (138) and because these are low SRM beers that I will dilute the mash water 3:1 with distilled. Then, to get my SRM range and ratio set, I am adding 1g of gypsum, 2g of CaCl and 1g of epsom salt to the mash. My sparge water will be all filtered tap water and the sheet has suggested an additional 1.7g of gypsum, 3.3g of CaCl and 1.7g of epsom salt to the boil. The numbers go calcium 92, magnesium 17, sodium 9, chloride 100, sulfate 90, alkalinity 81, RA -33, chloride-to-sulfate ratio "balanced" and an ideal SRM range of 2 to 7. Anyone see an issue with any of this? This is what I would use for both of these beers if this information looks reasonable. I swear I'm almost done with this topic and then I can go back into the PH and vote on who's hot or not.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

I can't help but think that with these thoughts of mash chemistry, I have somehow turned off the road of "beer-loving guy" and onto the road of pocket protector-wearing geekoid. That said, I continue to look at this topic, even in my sleep (not kidding). So I made my SRM 9 lager on Tuesday and all seemed to go well. I tasted the wort on the way from brewpot to primary and it didn't make me go blind, so that's a plus.Now, a question. My next 2 beers are going to be light in color. Next week, a cream ale with 1056 and the week after that, an American Lager with the WLP840 that is currently working on my amber lager I made earlier in the week. I decided that with my higher bicarbonate number (138) and because these are low SRM beers that I will dilute the mash water 3:1 with distilled. Then, to get my SRM range and ratio set, I am adding 1g of gypsum, 2g of CaCl and 1g of epsom salt to the mash. My sparge water will be all filtered tap water and the sheet has suggested an additional 1.7g of gypsum, 3.3g of CaCl and 1.7g of epsom salt to the boil. The numbers go calcium 92, magnesium 17, sodium 9, chloride 100, sulfate 90, alkalinity 81, RA -33, chloride-to-sulfate ratio "balanced" and an ideal SRM range of 2 to 7. Anyone see an issue with any of this? This is what I would use for both of these beers if this information looks reasonable. I swear I'm almost done with this topic and then I can go back into the PH and vote on who's hot or not.

The nice thing about palmer's spreadsheet is that for most of the final values if something is way off in left field it gets highlighted in red. Those numbers look okay to me but I'm no expert.

[Big Nake]

The nice thing about palmer's spreadsheet is that for most of the final values if something is way off in left field it gets highlighted in red. Those numbers look okay to me but I'm no expert.

I've been using the EZ_Water Spreadsheet for this. I don't know why, but it seems a little simpler to use. Maybe it's just my simpleton mindset. I like the way it suggests mash and also boil-kettle additions based on your numbers and the SRM of the beer you're making. It also sets bad numbers in RED (outside the range) and good numbers in GREEN within the range. Good stuff for simpletons like me.

[Humperdink]

I've been using the EZ_Water Spreadsheet for this. I don't know why, but it seems a little simpler to use. Maybe it's just my simpleton mindset. I like the way it suggests mash and also boil-kettle additions based on your numbers and the SRM of the beer you're making. It also sets bad numbers in RED (outside the range) and good numbers in GREEN within the range. Good stuff for simpletons like me.

That's a neat sheet ken. I like it a lot. Definitely set up in a more user friendly format.

[Big Nake]

I am bumping this thread because I now have 2 beers on tap that were made with these water additions. One (my Home Run Red Ale) was made with CaCl and some gypsum and another (my MLPA) was made with CaCl and some Epsom Salt. I used the EZ_water spreadsheet to calculate the water additions based on my water and the SRM of the beer to be brewed. If I felt that the style could benefit from gypsum, I used that to balance the ratio... if I thought that gypsum wasn't appropriate for the style, I used Epsom Salt (Magnesium Sulfate). These two beers are outstanding and I can say without a doubt that these additions have improved these beers. The extra "crispness" I was looking for is there and the beer tastes more balanced all the way around. As an added bonus, the head stability on these beers is unreal and they are clearer as well. I will report back as more of these beers make it to the taps. I have 6 beers in secondary (and one in primary) and all of them had the water adjusted according to the EZ_Water sheet. Cheers!