89 replies to this topic

[Big Nake]

In Chriscose's thread about a bad batch, Chris mentioned purging the keg before racking which made me shudder for a second. Does everybody send Co2 into their clean & sanitized kegs and then rack the beer into it? I have never done this. I just drop my racking tubing into the keg (which is long enough to lay on the bottom of the keg) and rack away. Does anyone have a feel for how much oxidation could occur from not purging the keg first? I haven't noticed any "cardboard" flavors, etc.

[Humperdink]

In Chriscose's thread about a bad batch, Chris mentioned purging the keg before racking which made me shudder for a second. Does everybody send Co2 into their clean & sanitized kegs and then rack the beer into it? I have never done this. I just drop my racking tubing into the keg (which is long enough to lay on the bottom of the keg) and rack away. Does anyone have a feel for how much oxidation could occur from not purging the keg first? I haven't noticed any "cardboard" flavors, etc.

I wouldn't worry about it Ken. I do it so I don't have to watch for splashing nearly as carefully, but if your tube runs to the bottom of the keg tehn you won't splash once the liquid level gets to the exit of the tube. It's just one less thing for me to be concerned about honestly, I just put together two kegs with a jumper cable and push the sanitizer form one keg to the other. FWIW I didn't always do this and never had an issue or anything mentioned by judges.ETA: Engrish again

Edited by chriscose, 16 December 2009 - 03:29 PM.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

In Chriscose's thread about a bad batch, Chris mentioned purging the keg before racking which made me shudder for a second. Does everybody send Co2 into their clean & sanitized kegs and then rack the beer into it? I have never done this. I just drop my racking tubing into the keg (which is long enough to lay on the bottom of the keg) and rack away. Does anyone have a feel for how much oxidation could occur from not purging the keg first? I haven't noticed any "cardboard" flavors, etc.

never done it - never had a problem.

[Thirsty]

If you are not doing this, it is not to say you will not ever have a problem, however oxidation many times takes 4-6 months to be noticable. If you keg, carb and drink all of it in a month, then you would probably never need to worry about it. But if you bottle some of this, and let it lay down for an extended time, BWs, old ales, RISs, big Belgians, then you may get oxidation. I have a CO2 line with a QD inline, so I can snap on different gas lines with different ends. One has a liquid black QD, one has a gas grey QD, one has a bottle gun swivel nut on the end. When I rack to keg, I connect the line with the black QD, blow some CO2 into the dip tube filling the bottom for about 10 seconds. My siphon tube then fills from the bottom of the keg up. Once filled, I snap the lid down, then switch to the gas line with the grey QD, and give the keg 3-4 burps. Not quite as efficient as a closed transfer, but I think pretty close.

[MtnBrewer]

I wouldn't worry either. I try to remember to do this but often forget. Either way, I continue to bubble CO₂ into the keg after racking for 10-15 seconds. That should be enough to purge the headspace of the vast majority of O₂.

[djinkc]

I really don't know how long I've been doing this. Run CO2 down the diptube for 30 seconds or so. Fill. Then another 15-20 seconds or so through the diptube again after filling and release through the PRV, and then a couple more seconds to seat the lid....... I think it's a good idea here since I always brew 10 gallons and one of those kegs will sit a couple months sometimes before it gets tapped. Anyway - won't hurt anything

[ncbeerbrewer]

I wouldn't worry about it Ken. I do it so I don't have to watch for splashing nearly as carefully, but if your tube runs to the bottom of the keg tehn you won't splash once the liquid level gets to the exit of the tube. It's just one less thing for me to be concerned about honestly, I just put together two kegs with a jumper cable and push the sanitizer form one keg to the other. FWIW I didn't always do this and never had an issue or anything mentioned by judges.ETA: Engrish again

I do as Chris mentioned. I just rack from my kitchen counter top fermenter on top keg on the floor and run the transfer hose to the bottom of the keg and figure after that liquid level passes the end there is no splashing worry. I am the only person in my house that drinks my beer other than what I give away to friends so kegs will last 2-3 months at a time sometimes. I have never worried about it. I also don't do keg to keg transfers. I guess if I filtered my beers then I might but thats a separate topic all together. All in All I would not worry about it to be honest.

[Big Nake]

Okay, I feel better now. There is usually no splashing going on when I rack and if I see/hear any, I stop it quickly. The tubing reaches the bottom of the keg so that's a plus too. And I also rack to keg, cool, carb and drink in relatively short spans (beers do not sit for many, many months) which is also good. I did have an Oktoberfest in 2008... made in March, kegged in April and stored cold until September and it was fine. Thanks guys.

[gnef]

I recall a brewer (George, maybe?) that used the density of the gases to tell when the keg was completely filled with CO2. Since CO2 is a denser gas, it will resonate at a lower frequency as it exits the pressure relief valve, and when you hear the pitch drop, you can be pretty sure that the vast majority of oxygen has been removed from the inside of the keg.

[BrewerGeorge]

I recall a brewer (George, maybe?) that used the density of the gases to tell when the keg was completely filled with CO2. Since CO2 is a denser gas, it will resonate at a lower frequency as it exits the pressure relief valve, and when you hear the pitch drop, you can be pretty sure that the vast majority of oxygen has been removed from the inside of the keg.

Wasn't me. I fill with iodophor and push it out with gas before filling. Been doing that for a couple years, but I never had any problems just filling carefully, either.

[3rd party JKor]

I'd say it's a very overblown fear. I just started purging recently, just as a matter of improving my process, but I've had beer in unpurged kegs for years without issue.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

I'd say it's a very overblown fear.

phew

I just started purging recently, just as a matter of improving my process

what??!! oh shit!!!

but I've had beer in unpurged kegs for years without issue.

ahhh - alright

[Stout_fan]

I recall a brewer (George, maybe?) that used the density of the gases to tell when the keg was completely filled with CO2. Since CO2 is a denser gas, it will resonate at a lower frequency as it exits the pressure relief valve, and when you hear the pitch drop, you can be pretty sure that the vast majority of oxygen has been removed from the inside of the keg.

I'm the guilty party. But it doesn't seem consistent. Most times it does, then some times it doesn't. Still trying to nail that one down. And it is more compressible resulting in a lower tone. Less compressible gasses raise pitch. Think helium.I fill my kegs with starsan and push it out with CO2. Then after racking I use the liquid tube and purge once, just so I can sleep at night.I also keg my beer just before completion, so the yeast work on whatever O2 I managed to get into solution and eradicate it.I can pull out a 5 year old keg from the wine cellar without worries.

Edited by Stout_fan, 17 December 2009 - 06:59 AM.

[Big Nake]

I can pull out a 5 year old keg from the wine cellar without worries.

... And do you do that?

[chadm75]

I'm getting in a little late on this thread but for what it worth...I fill my clean, sanitized keg with a little CO2 and then rack the beer into the keg. As the keg fills, it pushes the CO2 to the top and forces the O2 out as well. When the keg is filled, I seal the keg and purge off what little O2 is left. Haven't had any issues in the six-months I've been kegging.I do know that the one time I did purge the entire keg with CO2 prior to racking, my beer carbed a LOT quicker.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

so you guys that purge before transferring - are you aging in a soda keg and jumping the liquid lines together to transfer to another soda keg? How do you avoid picking up lots of junk during the transfer?

[Humperdink]

so you guys that purge before transferring - are you aging in a soda keg and jumping the liquid lines together to transfer to another soda keg? How do you avoid picking up lots of junk during the transfer?

I'll either cold crash and hold the dip tube above the sediment line (this is my usual method) and/or gelatin in the primary or keg to compact whatever I bring over. Usually after a pint or two drawn off the beer is running clear. I brew 12 gallon batches so I can try and get 6 into each fermenter, lose some to sediment etc and leave some beer on the yeast cake. I generally always get a full 5 gallons into my kegs.

[MakeMeHoppy]

Ive done both and have found as long as the head space is purged with Co2 after racking there is no problems. After all when the keg is being filled its pushing the O2 out of the keg anyways.

I've been following with some interest. None of my beers last longer than 3 months and I've never noticed a problem. However, I'm all for following best practices especially if it is easy to do. I fill my sanitized kegs with a siphon tube that reaches the bottom. When the keg is carried down to the basement I release the pressure and then fill the head space at least 3 times and purge each time. I believe the released carbonation from carrying the keg and the additional purges get rid of all/most of the oxygen. However, it does seem pretty easy to at least fill and purge the keg before racking so I will work that into my process.

[Spoon]

never done it - never had a problem.

^this.