27 replies to this topic

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

5 gallon batchGRAIN:9lb Maris Otter1lb Crystal 65L1lb White Wheat0.156lb Crystal 120L0.125lb Special RoastMash 152F for 60 minHOPS:1oz Magnum for 60 min1.5oz EKG for 10 min2oz EKG for 1 minYEAST:Wyeast 1318 London Ale IIISPECS:SRM: 13OG: 59.6IBU: 47I made a similar ESB to this as one of my early AG batches that was based on an Extract ESB I made before that. The main difference this time around is I'm using darker crystal, I cut the special roast in half, I added in the white wheat, and I'm adding some extra flavor/aroma hops. I'm also using a diff yeast (last time I used S-04). Let me know what you guys think.edit: the strange amount of C120 is simply due to the fact that I happen to have a small amount of milled C120 that I should use up.

[gumballhead]

looks good from here. shouldn't that be v2.0 what will the White wheat offer ?

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

looks good from here. shouldn't that be v2.0 what will the White wheat offer ?

I figured it would add some head retention and I read that a lot of british breweries used some wheat in these sort of beers. Should it maybe be flaked wheat instead?

[gumballhead]

I figured it would add some head retention and I read that a lot of british breweries used some wheat in these sort of beers. Should it maybe be flaked wheat instead?

Not really sure. I would think flaked would add more to the body and texture. rather than the head retention. there is always v3.0 next time.w/ flaked.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

Not really sure. I would think flaked would add more to the body and texture. rather than the head retention. there is always v3.0 next time.w/ flaked.

true - I also figured ken's MLPA (even though it's american but in the same general area) also uses wheat so I figured why not?

[Big Nake]

Zym: I think there is some latitude here, but if you can get your hands on authentic English ingredients, I think it makes a difference. I also like to keep things simple on a recipe like this. As I look through a bunch of ESBs, bitters, EPAs, etc., I see that it's almost always a combination of UK Pale malt (of whatever flavor you can get... I think I've been using Simpson's), British Crystal 55°L and torrified wheat. The British Crystal seems to be quite different than your standard American C60L. I think you can use the wheat as you have it and I agree it would be for mouthfeel & head stability. My Aviator's English Ale (on my site, under RECIPES) has these three grains and it makes a very simple yet wonderfully delicious beer. I think you could scratch the 120 and Special Roast but it's your call. You'll also have to let me know how the 1318 ferments this beer because I have not used it. Good luck.

[Slainte]

Waaaaaay too hoppy for an ESB, but if that's what you want, go ahead.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

Zym: I think there is some latitude here, but if you can get your hands on authentic English ingredients, I think it makes a difference. I also like to keep things simple on a recipe like this. As I look through a bunch of ESBs, bitters, EPAs, etc., I see that it's almost always a combination of UK Pale malt (of whatever flavor you can get... I think I've been using Simpson's), British Crystal 55°L and torrified wheat. The British Crystal seems to be quite different than your standard American C60L. I think you can use the wheat as you have it and I agree it would be for mouthfeel & head stability. My Aviator's English Ale (on my site, under RECIPES) has these three grains and it makes a very simple yet wonderfully delicious beer. I think you could scratch the 120 and Special Roast but it's your call. You'll also have to let me know how the 1318 ferments this beer because I have not used it. Good luck.

Yes - I've considered ditching the 120L at least. I have a ton of C65 so I'd like to use it. I guess I won't get to be full on authentic I kind of want to try the special roast in moderation (last time I think it was too much).

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

Waaaaaay too hoppy for an ESB, but if that's what you want, go ahead.

aroma or bitterness?

[Howie]

aroma or bitterness?

Bitterness is fine. He's talking aroma/flavor. To be traditional, English pales can be hoppy, but not like an APA or American IPA. That being said, it's YOUR beer, and you can brew your own interpretation. An oz at 10 and an oz at flameout might be more typical. I generally overhop my bitters a little and they always do well in competition. I like the darker crystal in there, it'll give a little burnt sugar/raisin type of thing in the background.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

Bitterness is fine. He's talking aroma/flavor. To be traditional, English pales can be hoppy, but not like an APA or American IPA. That being said, it's YOUR beer, and you can brew your own interpretation. An oz at 10 and an oz at flameout might be more typical. I generally overhop my bitters a little and they always do well in competition. I like the darker crystal in there, it'll give a little burnt sugar/raisin type of thing in the background.

what do you think of the special roast and white wheat?

[Howie]

what do you think of the special roast and white wheat?

I didn't really like Special Roast the one time I used it. I didn't care for that twangy, sour character. I don't generally use wheat in my bitters. I always use flaked barley. I think flaked wheat would offer about the same.

[Big Nake]

I know that a lot of brewers knock the Szamatulskis, Clonebrews, etc. but if you have Beer Captured, there is a wide variety of English Ales and a lot of great bitter/ESB/EPA recipes in that book. If you don't look at it as "cloning" and you simply look at it as a good list of English Ale recipes, you can get some great ideas of how many of these beers are put together. An ESB is ordinarily very malty and the hops usually just counteract the sweetness. Since most of these yeasts are high floccers/low attenuaters, a heavier hand is sometimes required for the hops. There is usually some gray area too so your grain bill may be more "ESB" but your hops may be more "English Pale Ale". You don't mention the AA% on your hops (the last Magnums I used were 14.4%) but I think they could be very nice. Good luck Zym.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

I didn't really like Special Roast the one time I used it. I didn't care for that twangy, sour character. I don't generally use wheat in my bitters. I always use flaked barley. I think flaked wheat would offer about the same.

Flaked barley might be nice and I believe I have some of that in stock. I know what you mean about the special roast but I think in a proper amount it could be nice. Last time I use 1/4lb which I think was too much.

[Howie]

Flaked barley might be nice and I believe I have some of that in stock. I know what you mean about the special roast but I think in a proper amount it could be nice. Last time I use 1/4lb which I think was too much.

I used it in a brown ale once and just despised that beer. I might try it in a bitter (like Jamil's recipe) sometime just to see how that works.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

I used it in a brown ale once and just despised that beer. I might try it in a bitter (like Jamil's recipe) sometime just to see how that works.

I see that he also uses a 1/4lb...

[Thirsty]

I see that he also uses a 1/4lb...

Replacing the spec roast with biscuit is not a bad idea IMHO, I usually put .5# in my ESBs, for a 12 gallon batch, so .25# might be good. The MO will give some richness, but I think you need something bready too if not using munich or vienna

[Jimmy James]

I like to use either biscuit or Munich for my ESB like thirsty. Would be interested to hear how it turns out with the special roast though. For the wheat, I think flaked or white wheat will work more or less the same. You could probably also use 1/4 lb of flaked oats to get a similar effect. I like the idea of the wheat though. I like the hop sched you have.

[Big Nake]

The MO will give some richness, but I think you need something bready too if not using munich or vienna

I notice that the English malts are quite a bit richer than your standard American version. I made a bitter with UK Pale Malt and when I went to make another one with the same yeast, I realized I only had domestic 2-row left. I made it anyway and it came out pretty nice (on tap now) but I can tell it's a little thinner-tasting than the UK malt. 2¢.

[siouxbrewer]

I'd do a flavoring addition at 30min, EKG's would work great. Your later hop additions sound good to me