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#1 ER Pemberton

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Posted 13 January 2020 - 08:39 AM

It appears that Sinamar is getting hard to find for some reason.  I just checked 4-6 places online and they're all sold out. I found THIS where you can make your own and I would consider it. I have some Midnight Wheat and also Carafa but I think I'd like to keep the Carafa. Could I take something like four ounces of Midnight wheat and run it through the mill and cold-steep it in a small amount of cold water and then add it? I have a Shiner Bock (ish) recipe coming up and I think it might be a good application for this. Has anyone ever done this?

 

According to that... one pound of malt (16 ounces) in a quart of water (32 ounces) so it's 2:1.  I could take 4 ounces of midnight wheat, run it through the mill (maybe twice?) and cold steep it in 8 ounces of water to get something I could use.  Thoughts?



#2 HVB

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Posted 13 January 2020 - 08:46 AM

Looks in stock here https://www.williams...ring-P2651.aspx

 

I have never tried the method outlined in the link but I think the cold steep would be fine.  I have a liter of Sinamar sitting in the brewery that I have yet to do anything with.


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#3 ER Pemberton

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Posted 13 January 2020 - 09:00 AM

That's so strange.  I saw the Williams link but I saw this:

 

sinamar.png

 

On one hand, sinamar is not the type of thing I need very often.  OTOH, some of these LO steps are producing beers that are more pale and that includes DARK beers.  Dark beers are more amber now.  But using more Carafa or MW in a beer like that may give it too much roastiness and I would hate to compromise the flavor for the sake of the color.  I might try to make some the way I outlined above and see what happens.  



#4 HVB

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Posted 13 January 2020 - 09:15 AM

Odd, the google search shows in-stock for me on the search page.

 

Not much to lose giving the other method a try.


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#5 Poptop

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Posted 13 January 2020 - 09:26 AM

Sorry if I'm missing something here but why not just use MW as is in a recipe?  1 ounce to 10-11 pounds adds great color and zero flavor.  Even a couple ounces does nothing but enhance color.


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#6 ER Pemberton

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Posted 13 January 2020 - 09:43 AM

Sorry if I'm missing something here but why not just use MW as is in a recipe?  1 ounce to 10-11 pounds adds great color and zero flavor.  Even a couple ounces does nothing but enhance color.

I feel like some of these LO steps have made it so that malts with any type of character to them (crystal, special b, dark roasty grains, maybe even honey malt) come through MUCH, MUCH stronger.  These steps also create more pale beers.  Drez, help me out if you noticed the same thing.  I used 2 ounces of Carafa III in my Bordertown Dark Lager.  Those 2 ounces were not enough to get the beer as dark as it once was.  More dark grains could make it a bit coffee-like so the cold-steeping brings color without flavor impact.  The one ounce in 10-11 pounds makes sense but what you needed 3-4 ounces in 10 pounds?  :scratch:  I feel like beers such as Shiner Bock, Negra Modelo, Indio and some others may use some Sinamar.  



#7 Poptop

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Posted 13 January 2020 - 10:12 AM

Thank you


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#8 ER Pemberton

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Posted 13 January 2020 - 03:36 PM

Okay, so I took four ounces of midnight wheat and ran it through the mill...

 

midnight-wheat-crushed.jpg

 

Then I threw it into a flask and added 8 ounces of cold water...

 

midnight-wheat-cold-steep.jpg

 

At this time tomorrow I'll pour that schputz through a strainer and into a glass jar with a lid and put it into the fridge until brewday.  I'm not going to get very much liquid out of this, I assume.  I'll probably use two ounces of carafa III in the actual mash and then add this to the kettle before the boil until I think the color looks right.  Should be interesting.  



#9 HVB

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Posted 13 January 2020 - 04:58 PM

Was that water de-oxygenated :)
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#10 ER Pemberton

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Posted 13 January 2020 - 05:25 PM

Was that water de-oxygenated :)

On that topic, check your PMs.  



#11 ER Pemberton

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 02:54 PM

Okay, I got maybe 4-5 ounces of this inky liquid.

 

sinamar-homemade.jpg

 

I will probably use 2 ounces of Carafa III in this Shiner Bock batch plus an ounce of MW and then add this black juice to the kettle until I think the color looks close to the commercial version.  



#12 pkrone

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 04:22 PM

I like to just toss the carafa in the mash near the end.   I've been getting the color without much roastiness at all.   


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#13 ER Pemberton

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 05:11 PM

I like to just toss the carafa in the mash near the end.   I've been getting the color without much roastiness at all.   

So mill it and hold it until the end of the mash, toss it in and then run off?



#14 HVB

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 05:48 PM

So mill it and hold it until the end of the mash, toss it in and then run off?


I have done that before also with good results. Or buy some sinamar ;)
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#15 pkrone

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 06:20 AM

yep


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#16 ER Pemberton

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Posted 25 January 2020 - 02:57 PM

So I brewed this beer today and used 2 ounces of dark crystal, 2 ounces of Carafa III and an ounce of MW.  The color looked plenty dark to me so I did not bother to use my homemade sinamar.  On the batch itself, this was supposed to be a beer that's "in the spirit" of Shiner Bock.  The Shiner site says that Shiner Bock is 13 IBUs.  13!  I really had to restrain myself and I suppose I really didn't.  I used .7 ounces of 9% Northern Brewer at the start of the boil which came to about 20 IBUs so I overshot the commercial IBUs by about 50% which is ridiculous.  I ended up with a very nice, dark and clear wort.  I'll get a picture of it when the time comes.  Cheers.



#17 denny

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Posted Today, 01:25 PM

So I brewed this beer today and used 2 ounces of dark crystal, 2 ounces of Carafa III and an ounce of MW.  The color looked plenty dark to me so I did not bother to use my homemade sinamar.  On the batch itself, this was supposed to be a beer that's "in the spirit" of Shiner Bock.  The Shiner site says that Shiner Bock is 13 IBUs.  13!  I really had to restrain myself and I suppose I really didn't.  I used .7 ounces of 9% Northern Brewer at the start of the boil which came to about 20 IBUs so I overshot the commercial IBUs by about 50% which is ridiculous.  I ended up with a very nice, dark and clear wort.  I'll get a picture of it when the time comes.  Cheers.

Yeah, but unless you've had beers analyzed for IBU and adjusted your system and practices accordingly, you have no idea what your IBUs are. You may have hit it right on!


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#18 ER Pemberton

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Posted Today, 02:08 PM

Yeah, but unless you've had beers analyzed for IBU and adjusted your system and practices accordingly, you have no idea what your IBUs are. You may have hit it right on!

Anytime I see a beer that is supposedly less than 20 IBUs, I generally shoot for 20... sometimes a little higher.  I hear what you're saying... the balance could be right even though the numbers don't match.  



#19 denny

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Posted Today, 02:38 PM

Anytime I see a beer that is supposedly less than 20 IBUs, I generally shoot for 20... sometimes a little higher.  I hear what you're saying... the balance could be right even though the numbers don't match.  

Yep.  Glenn Tinseth made that very clear when we interviewed him.  And taste is all that matters.


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