41 replies to this topic

[HokieTrismegistus]

Double IPA, get it?I just want to brew something so beastly and manly that testicles hang from the glass when you fill it up with this. I also want it to taste good. I'm thinkingSingle infusion @ 150 F, 1.25 gallons/lb13 lbs pale malt1 lb 6 row1 lb crystal1 lb munich1 lb vienna1 lb biscuit malt2oz chocolate malt1 oz Chinook, 1 oz Cascade 60 minutes1 oz amarillo 50 minutes1 oz cascades 40 minutes1 oz amarillo 30 minutes1 oz cascades 20 minutes1 oz amarillo 10 minutes1oz amarillo, 1 oz cascadesFerment with California Ale (yea, I'm making a good starter lol)Dry hop with Columbus

[HokieTrismegistus]

Any thoughts? Is the one pound of crystal too much? Is the 2 oz of chocolate enough?

[ncbeerbrewer]

Double IPA, get it? I just want to brew something so beastly and manly that testicles hang from the glass when you fill it up with this. I also want it to taste good. I'm thinking Single infusion @ 150 F, 1.25 gallons/lb 13 lbs pale malt 1 lb 6 row 1 lb crystal 1 lb munich 1 lb vienna 1 lb biscuit malt 2oz chocolate malt 1 oz Chinook, 1 oz Cascade 60 minutes 1 oz amarillo 50 minutes 1 oz cascades 40 minutes 1 oz amarillo 30 minutes 1 oz cascades 20 minutes 1 oz amarillo 10 minutes 1oz amarillo, 1 oz cascades Ferment with California Ale (yea, I'm making a good starter lol) Dry hop with Columbus

I would not use the Chocolate at all. An IPA is a showcase of hops with the malts as a backbone. You would never taste 2oz of Choc. I would also cut the Crystal back to around 0.5lbs. I don't like to use much of it in my IPA's. What is the purpose of the 6 row? Since there is not much of that I would just replace that with the 2 Row. The rest is alright if you ask me. Good Luck.

[Slainte]

Why are you adding the 1 lb of 6-row? I would also significantly reduce the crystal malt, at least by half, and cut out the biscuit malt. I think the biscuit addition will inhibit the drinkability of the beer by clashing with the hops. Keep the malt bill simple, double IPAs should be all about the hops. Why are you adding chocolate malt?Also, you're not going to nearly have enough hop flavor and aroma in the beer. Those pre-30 minute additions are going to primarily give you bitterness, not flavor and aroma. I would move them near the end. And I would also consider increasing the late additions.

[HokieTrismegistus]

I would not use the Chocolate at all. An IPA is a showcase of hops with the malts as a backbone. You would never taste 2oz of Choc. I would also cut the Crystal back to around 0.5lbs. I don't like to use much of it in my IPA's. What is the purpose of the 6 row? Since there is not much of that I would just replace that with the 2 Row. The rest is alright if you ask me. Good Luck.

You think a quarter lb of 2 row would be better? I like my beers to be balanced... if it's going to be exceedingly bitter, it should have enough malt to stand up to it, and if you're going to have malt flavor, it too should have a bit of complexity. The 6 row would give optimal conversion (more enzymes) and hopefully make my lautering a little better... more husk

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

You think a quarter lb of 2 row would be better? I like my beers to be balanced... if it's going to be exceedingly bitter, it should have enough malt to stand up to it, and if you're going to have malt flavor, it too should have a bit of complexity. The 6 row would give optimal conversion (more enzymes) and hopefully make my lautering a little better... more husk

I don't fully understand all of the ingredients here but some of them I don't see doing any real harm so I won't bother commenting. I too would probably ditch the chocolate - just doesn't seem quite right to me. The biscuit I would also ditch about but if you really want to use it I'd cut back to maybe a 1/4lb. I know everyone is saying cut back on the crystal but honestly a pound of crystal doesn't bother me in a beer with plenty of hops to back it up. The question is though - what crystal are we talking about? Hopefully something around 60L (or maybe less). As for the hops, I'm with the others that you need to load up the end of the boil with more hops. I generally don't bother adding anything between 60 and 20 minutes b/c if it's earlier than 20 minutes you won't get much flavor out of it anyway so you may as well max out the IBU contribution you are getting from the addition and move it to 60 minutes instead. So I'd push your bittering stuff to all be around 60 minutes to hit the IBUs you want and then load up on flavor/aroma additions towards the end of the boil. I'd probably shoot for 4-5oz in the last 10 minutes of the boil (spread any way you see fit).

[Thirsty]

Double IPA, get it? I just want to brew something so beastly and manly that testicles hang from the glass when you fill it up with this. I also want it to taste good.

If you are going foer a double IPA, and you want to back up your statement of making it a beast, then it needs to be hop showcased like the rest have stated. If you want tasty malt and what you are saying as a balance- a barleywine may be more accurate. There is a major difference IMHO between backbone and balance. A 100+ IBU DIPA should have a good OG, but should finish dry not sweet. Echoing the others, I would cut the crystal to .5#, the 2 oz of chocolate may not add much for flavor- OK, and will approach you to an amber for appearance, so no big deal, but the munich, vienna, and biscuit will be overboard as well. Maybe a # of munich OR vienna will give a bit of your back bone, and agreed the biscuit if included should be cut to under 1/2# I would also include a # of corn or table sugar late addition to help get it dry. My $.02

[3rd party JKor]

I think it's generally OK. I understand what people are saying about the grains and backloading the hops, but I don't think you need to necessarily change a lot. It depends what you're going for. The comments are trying to steer you towards a Pliny-like DIPA. I guess the only thing I would definitely take out of the malt bill is the chocolate. At 2 oz it's only giving you color, which you don't really want. You don't need the 6-row, the diastatic power of the other malts is plenty and the additional husk material from 1 pound of 6-row is not meaningful. That being said, you won't hurt anything byt throwing it in there. The munich, vienna and biscuit are fine IMO, if that's what you like. I might cut the crystal back a little though.For the hops, I kind of agree with what others have said about the lack of hops late in the boil. The popular thing to do now is to blast the hops in the last 20 minutes, which certainly gives you a lot of hop character, but the 50-40-30 minute additions still give you some flavor. I wouldn't necessarily move those additions up, I think they can give you a different character than the late additions, but I would add more hops to the late boil. Double (or more) the additions at 20, 10 and flameout.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

I recently kicked a keg of AIPA I made that was about 1/2 and 1/2 pale malt and munich with a pound of crystal 65L thrown in. I hopped the bejesus out of it and life was good. Why does everyone fear crystal so much? Some AG recipe kits I've seen from the big guys use 1.5lbs of crystal in pale ale type recipes. I have to think the folks at B3 aren't completely out in left field. To me it's matter of personal preference but it seems kind of strange to me how consistently you guys all want to cut the crystal use way back.

[Thirsty]

I have to think the folks at B3 aren't completely out in left field. To me it's matter of personal preference but it seems kind of strange to me how consistently you guys all want to cut the crystal use way back.

It is definitely a matter of personal preference and there is nothing wrong with a complexity in any malt bill when using restraint. However the style to be displayed as a DIPA should finish dry, not sweet, adding crystal sweetens the flavor and finish. The entire grain bill proposed could certainly be used, but it will make a sweeter, malt influenced beer- as opposed to a vehicle to deliver your hops. Hell you could use special B if you want, but just a bit, so it isnt recognizable, just supports. JZ is always talking about adding simple sugar to the boil as well to get the OG down- which should be the same as a single (1.045-1.060) IPA. Too much crystal and the OG is tough to get down. If you start 20 points higher, but still want to finish in the low-mid teens, crystal will be a hinderance. It would be like adding carapils to a Belgian tripel mashed at 146, to add body, why? One is contradicting the other. The same I feel is here with a sweet and malty hopbomb, it will turn into more of a BW than a DIPA, nothing wrong with that either, just leaves the playing field of a DIPA. One of the maltiest DIPAs I can think of is Great Divide's hercules, and even that finishes dry, huge backbone- but still not sweet.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

It is definitely a matter of personal preference and there is nothing wrong with a complexity in any malt bill when using restraint. However the style to be displayed as a DIPA should finish dry, not sweet, adding crystal sweetens the flavor and finish. The entire grain bill proposed could certainly be used, but it will make a sweeter, malt influenced beer- as opposed to a vehicle to deliver your hops. Hell you could use special B if you want, but just a bit, so it isnt recognizable, just supports. JZ is always talking about adding simple sugar to the boil as well to get the OG down- which should be the same as a single (1.045-1.060) IPA. Too much crystal and the OG is tough to get down. If you start 20 points higher, but still want to finish in the low-mid teens, crystal will be a hinderance. It would be like adding carapils to a Belgian tripel mashed at 146, to add body, why? One is contradicting the other. The same I feel is here with a sweet and malty hopbomb, it will turn into more of a BW than a DIPA, nothing wrong with that either, just leaves the playing field of a DIPA. One of the maltiest DIPAs I can think of is Great Divide's hercules, and even that finishes dry, huge backbone- but still not sweet.

I suppose hitting the style is a different situation but in other threads where people are making beers where some sweetness or complexity wouldn't be out of style the "cut the crystal in half" still seems to come out.

[stellarbrew]

One of the maltiest DIPAs I can think of is Great Divide's hercules, and even that finishes dry, huge backbone- but still not sweet.

I agree that Hercules strikes a good balance, providing a very strong malt backbone, without being sweet. A DIPA that crosses that line, to my palate, is Moylan's Hopsickle. Hopsickle is a bit cloying to me. But some other people love it...it all comes down to personal preference. It also depends on what I'm in the mood for. For example, Oskar Blues Dale's Pale Ale tastes fantastic to me sometimes. On other occasions, it tastes cloying, like the crystal malt was way overdone. It just depends on the day.

[harryfrog]

I made a base for my spiced christmas ale with 2oz of chocolate and all it did was add color - no hints of it coming through (that was before I spiced it in the secondary). I actually bought 2oz of the stuff the LHBS double crushes for the extract kits.

[Thirsty]

I made a base for my spiced christmas ale with 2oz of chocolate and all it did was add color - no hints of it coming through (that was before I spiced it in the secondary). I actually bought 2oz of the stuff the LHBS double crushes for the extract kits.

That is exactly why I thought keeping the small amount of chocolate is not a bad idea. It will not impart any roast in such a small amount (which is completely inappropriate) but will start top give a nice amber to it. Again going back to GD's hercules, it has a deep amber hue, which plays with the mind more making a "double" IPA not just in flavor, but darker and perceivably richer/complex too. My go to DIPA recipe has .5 # special roast and 1# melanoidin, and I get a nice deep amber with it, seperating it from the orangey appearance of a single IPA. My preference- Moylan's hopsickle and Stone ruination dont feel the need to trick with color, they just give you bright orange with floaties, yummy yummy floaties.

[3rd party JKor]

It is definitely a matter of personal preference and there is nothing wrong with a complexity in any malt bill when using restraint. However the style to be displayed as a DIPA should finish dry, not sweet, adding crystal sweetens the flavor and finish. The entire grain bill proposed could certainly be used, but it will make a sweeter, malt influenced beer- as opposed to a vehicle to deliver your hops. Hell you could use special B if you want, but just a bit, so it isnt recognizable, just supports. JZ is always talking about adding simple sugar to the boil as well to get the OG down- which should be the same as a single (1.045-1.060) IPA. Too much crystal and the OG is tough to get down. If you start 20 points higher, but still want to finish in the low-mid teens, crystal will be a hinderance. It would be like adding carapils to a Belgian tripel mashed at 146, to add body, why? One is contradicting the other. The same I feel is here with a sweet and malty hopbomb, it will turn into more of a BW than a DIPA, nothing wrong with that either, just leaves the playing field of a DIPA. One of the maltiest DIPAs I can think of is Great Divide's hercules, and even that finishes dry, huge backbone- but still not sweet.

I don't think the recipe above is BW-like at all. Even with a pound of crystal. It's going to be maltier and slightly sweeter than a lot of the offerings out there, but it won't be mistaken for a barleywine.

[Thirsty]

I don't think the recipe above is BW-like at all. Even with a pound of crystal. It's going to be maltier and slightly sweeter than a lot of the offerings out there, but it won't be mistaken for a barleywine.

? I see this as almost an identical grain bill for a BW, a little light on the crystal and heavy on the biscuit, but real close. Ironically one of JZ's recipes even calls for .25# of pale choc. With 18# of grain with normal efficiency he will be coming in at 1.080-1.090 ish and probably somewhere around 75 IBUs. How could this not be mistaken for a BW?

[MtnBrewer]

It's got too much crystal for a barley wine.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

It's got too much crystal for a barley wine.

I'll actually agree here as BW should be pretty simple grain bill where most of the color/flavor comes from an extended boil.

[MtnBrewer]

Actually what I meant was that it had too much crystal for a beer with a high OG. As OG goes up, the need for crystal malt goes down.

[3rd party JKor]

? I see this as almost an identical grain bill for a BW, a little light on the crystal and heavy on the biscuit, but real close. Ironically one of JZ's recipes even calls for .25# of pale choc. With 18# of grain with normal efficiency he will be coming in at 1.080-1.090 ish and probably somewhere around 75 IBUs. How could this not be mistaken for a BW?

When I put it in PM I got a much lower gravity. Like low 1.070s. I can't remember what I put in for numbers. 6 gal/70% maybe? I think I also may have omitted the choc. and halved the crystal. Yeah, I just put that in there, it came out as 1.074, 10 SRM. That plus a 150 mash temp and 001, I think, gives you more along the lines of an IPA than BW. Obviously, it's going to be heavier than the classic examples, but still a bit more IPA-ish and ABW-ish. Although, an AIPA is pretty much a baby ABW, so you can probably argue for either side. I think JZ would bathe in pale chocolate. He has it in like half of his recipes.