41 replies to this topic

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

What direction are you pointing?

mtn is correct that it's probably not the fermentation temp. I have to wonder though - did you come up with the bandaid taste description on your own or did you see it somewhere (like in Palmer's book) and assign that as the name to the taste that doesn't seem right in your beer? I'm only asking to make sure people here have an understanding of what the off taste is b/c without being able to taste it all we have to go on is your interpretation.

[Pseudolus]

That being said, it would have to be a really hot fermentation to kill off all the saccaromyces.

Yup. My understanding is that beer yeast thrive just fine in warm temperatures. Beer drinkers, however, don't tend to like the results. My observations - e.g. starters at room temperature in the heat of the summer - tend to support this.

[ranagel99]

mtn is correct that it's probably not the fermentation temp. I have to wonder though - did you come up with the bandaid taste description on your own or did you see it somewhere (like in Palmer's book) and assign that as the name to the taste that doesn't seem right in your beer? I'm only asking to make sure people here have an understanding of what the off taste is b/c without being able to taste it all we have to go on is your interpretation.

I had read how to brew before this so it was in my head before I tasted this. But it was a hot rubbery burning kind of taste. I had read some people noticed a similar taste in Simcoe hops and I think I heard Collin from downtown Joe's talk about it on the BN Sunday Session. My wheat is all simcoe (5.5 gallon .33 oz/60 min, .33 oz/20 min, .33 oz/5 min), so I thought maybe it was the hops. It seemed way too strong for this to be it so then I worried that the yeast had puked there guts out on me (the wheat sat in primary almost 4 weeks and I had always transferred by 2 weeks before). I researched that and it seemed unlikely it was my problem. So then I decided I better start making starters. I did some more reading and decided I could have a wild yeast. So then I replaced all my plastic and swithced my santization and cleaning methods from bleach to oxyclean and saniclean. And then I still got the same taste in my next three batches after changing my cleaning, replacing plastic, and making starters. I have now been talking with my wife and wonder how warm my basement is actually getting. I also use to set my carboys straight on the concrete floor but the last four batches have been on a rug. But it sounds like that is not my problem by everyone's opinions here. I have also had a couple of gushers in the past, but I always thought this was a bottle sanitation issue. I did have one batch before my last set of four that was pretty much all very carbonated (90% GP, 5% Honey Malt, 5% Munich, low EKG hopping, 4.5% ABV, 1056). I went back and taste these last night and I think I can taste a hint of the "band-aid" taste.So, yes I had read Palmer's book first so it influenced my decriptors, but I think that is the right descriptor.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

So, yes I had read Palmer's book first so it influenced my decriptors, but I think that is the right descriptor.

So that brings us back to chlorine/chloramines. Does saniclean have chlorine/chloramines in it?

[ranagel99]

So that brings us back to chlorine/chloramines. Does saniclean have chlorine/chloramines in it?

SANICLEAN is a blend of phosphoric acid and Sulfonate Oleic Acid. This synergisticblend provides a unique synergistic system that is unaffected by excessive organicsoils. SANICLEAN is low foaming. Unlike other acid anionic detergents, SANICLEAN willnot produce excessive foam when recirculating through CIP systems. SANICLEAN doesnot require a rinse when used at or below 200 ppm. Using SANICLEAN on a daily basiswill leave equipment in an acid condition that will eliminate water spotting. SANICLEANis also excellent for part soaking. If kept at a pH of 3 or below SANICLEAN will remaineffective for a week at a time and not require sweetening to eliminate spotting andremove odors.. It is not recommended to use SANICLEAN on soft metals because ofthe acid nature of this product.

[DaBearSox]

a huge headache

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

SANICLEAN is a blend of phosphoric acid and Sulfonate Oleic Acid. This synergisticblend provides a unique synergistic system that is unaffected by excessive organicsoils. SANICLEAN is low foaming. Unlike other acid anionic detergents, SANICLEAN willnot produce excessive foam when recirculating through CIP systems. SANICLEAN doesnot require a rinse when used at or below 200 ppm. Using SANICLEAN on a daily basiswill leave equipment in an acid condition that will eliminate water spotting. SANICLEANis also excellent for part soaking. If kept at a pH of 3 or below SANICLEAN will remaineffective for a week at a time and not require sweetening to eliminate spotting andremove odors.. It is not recommended to use SANICLEAN on soft metals because ofthe acid nature of this product.

I wish I could help you out but I don't have any ideas

[Deerslyr]

I'm not convinced that the heat isn't his problem. I would suggest brewing a no nonsense batch of beer. Nothing funny or extravagant. A basic Cream Ale would work fine. (8 pounds 2 Row, 2 pounds flaked maize, 2 ounces Mt. Hood for 60 minutes, US-05) It's cheap to produce. It will also highlight the problem. I would split the batch between two fermenters. Ferment one at the normal temps. On the second, put it in a plastic tub filled with water to help keep it cool. Twice a day (or more if you can) put frozen water bottles in. Use the wet t-shirt method (anyon got good pics?). Whatever it takes to keep it cooler. One train of thought that I have about this discussion is that I don't think there is a wild bug/yeast. Those tend to know no tolerance, so the beer would have dried out and/or been wholly undrinkable. I think it's a temperature issue. If he has an ambient temp of 70, I'm gonna go out on a limb and up it a few degrees. That means it's getting into the 80's inside the fermenter. Not good! I think it would be best practices IN ANY EVENT for him to start cooling it down. Those big plastic tubs with the rope handles are cheap ($6 at Wally World) to start with.

[MtnBrewer]

You keep saying rubbery but chlorophenols are more of a band-aid taste. Could it possibly be autolysis? To me that is a closer fit to rubbery than chlorophenols are. Normally 4 weeks in primary wouldn't be enough for autolysis but maybe in combination with the elevated temperature.This is like an episode of House. All we know for sure is that it isn't lupus.

[strangebrewer]

This is like an episode of House. All we know for sure is that it isn't lupus.

[ranagel99]

You keep saying rubbery but chlorophenols are more of a band-aid taste. Could it possibly be autolysis? To me that is a closer fit to rubbery than chlorophenols are. Normally 4 weeks in primary wouldn't be enough for autolysis but maybe in combination with the elevated temperature.This is like an episode of House. All we know for sure is that it isn't lupus.

When I say rubber I meant like a hot/burnt rubber. It warms the mouth and is really astrigent. It lingers bad. I really feel it on my tongue.And the wheat was the only one with 4 weeks in the primary. The other batches all spent 2 weeks in the primary. My yeast source for the Wheat was Midwest Supplies on line. My yeast source for the next 3 was a new local shop. I do think I can taste this flavor in another brew before these four now and it was a from Midwest Supplies as well. No repitching.

[MtnBrewer]

When I say rubber I meant like a hot/burnt rubber. It warms the mouth and is really astrigent. It lingers bad. I really feel it on my tongue.

Hmmm This actually makes me think of fusel alcohols, in which case the temperature would definitely be a factor. Did you pick up any solventy flavors like nail polish remover (acetone)? Perhaps we need to give Deerslyr's idea some consideration.

And the wheat was the only one with 4 weeks in the primary. The other batches all spent 2 weeks in the primary. My yeast source for the Wheat was Midwest Supplies on line. My yeast source for the next 3 was a new local shop. I do think I can taste this flavor in another brew before these four now and it was a from Midwest Supplies as well. No repitching.

Ok, let's rule out autolysis then. I'm grasping at straws too. Maybe it *is* lupus.

[ranagel99]

I have noticed that my beers taste higher in alcohol than the numbers show. It may have a slight nail polish remover taste.

[ranagel99]

Hmmm This actually makes me think of fusel alcohols, in which case the temperature would definitely be a factor. Did you pick up any solventy flavors like nail polish remover (acetone)? Perhaps we need to give Deerslyr's idea some consideration.Ok, let's rule out autolysis then. I'm grasping at straws too. Maybe it *is* lupus.

We haven't ruled out sanitation though, correct?

[MtnBrewer]

We haven't ruled out sanitation though, correct?

Can't rule it out but I think it's unlikely that there's a wild bug causing this. I'm starting to lean toward fusels.Let's first be sure we're identifying the correct flavor. Is there a homebrew club or shop nearby where you could take the beer and let someone with more experience taste it? Can you send a bottle to one of us?

[ranagel99]

Can't rule it out but I think it's unlikely that there's a wild bug causing this. I'm starting to lean toward fusels.Let's first be sure we're identifying the correct flavor. Is there a homebrew club or shop nearby where you could take the beer and let someone with more experience taste it? Can you send a bottle to one of us?

No club. I have a homebrew shop I could take it to. I could mail you a sample of 4 of the the beers. 3 aren't bottled. Is there any point in carbing them?

[MtnBrewer]

No club. I have a homebrew shop I could take it to. I could mail you a sample of 4 of the the beers. 3 aren't bottled. Is there any point in carbing them?

No, not really. Take one or two down to the shop and see if they can identify the off-flavor. Make sure you give them an appropriate warning! If that doesn't work you can mail a couple to me or some of the other guys in this thread.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

No, not really. Take one or two down to the shop and see if they can identify the off-flavor. Make sure you give them an appropriate warning! If that doesn't work you can mail a couple to me or some of the other guys in this thread.

if the LHBS is good this should help A LOT!

[Deerslyr]

We haven't ruled out sanitation though, correct?

I thought we had... I thought all the plastic was swapped out. Furthermore... our brewing forefathers did a lot more with less... you think they had Starsan??? If normal sanitary procedures were followed, then I'm skeptical about sanitation. The more and more I'm reading, it points to what IS known... HIGH TEMPS!!!Let's run the test and see what happens. Since it's an investigative test to unmask the culprit, you could call the test batch Scooby Doo's Mystry Machine _______ Ale. (under the theory that it could have run the bus and that it was a mystery)

[beach]

I'm with deerslyr on this one. I think the place to start, given what ranagel has already done, would be temperature control. .02 Beach