98 replies to this topic

[Big Nake]

A lot of people mentioned that and I consider the information to be good just based on the number of people who gave it to me. Plus, I have no counter-argument. I have no idea what percentage of a tank of CO2 is O2 nor would I expect that answer to be consistent. I have gotten CO2 tanks filled at welding places, fire-extinguisher places and homebrew shops. No idea if there is a difference. Remember too that everyone's beer reality takes place in their own brewery, their own beer and their own head. If I were to use CO2 to force-carb and concluded that my beer was good enough for me, that would be fine. I would like to see how the spunded beer comes out so I can make that determination for myself.

[HVB]

A lot of people mentioned that and I consider the information to be good just based on the number of people who gave it to me.

I just like to have some evidence over word of mouth.  Not saying it is wrong but this goes back to what I did not like about the original paper... the beer is better just believe us... you have to believe us.

[Big Nake]

I just like to have some evidence over word of mouth.  Not saying it is wrong but this goes back to what I did not like about the original paper... the beer is better just believe us... you have to believe us.

I hear that. One of the messages there has always been "just try it for yourself". That message is meant to get you to the point of sampling your own beer that was made this way and saying, "Whoa. That's very different". There are brewers over there just like us. They're not really trying to sell anything and they will give you solid information on processes, etc. Many of them are of the "more flexible" nature where maybe their daily schedules don't allow them to do various things so they have some other methods in place that work well for them. On the topic of the O2 in CO2... I, personally have no reason to question it because I don't know. I have no other argument at least not now. It may happen that I spund a beer and like it and then force-carb some subsequent beers and decide that I like that just the same and I end up making my beer that way. But I would like to have that experience so I can decide. Also, if you agree that oxidation is an enemy of good, fresh beer then I MUST assume that my previous beers were oxidized and therefore not as good as they could be. I stirred and splashed my way through the process and did open transfers too. I was happy with my beers but could I be happier with my beers?

[positiveContact]

Ken, not knowing for sure still leaves room for questioning. In fact it is the reason for questioning. If you knew for sure you could just tell them they are right or wrong.

[positiveContact]

The stuff I'm reading about impurities in co2 tanks is not mentioning O2 as one of the things you find. All grades of co2 are over 99% pure as well.

[positiveContact]

Actually most will be at least 99.5% pure. If you get beverage grade it will be 99.9%.

[Big Nake]

I have a hard time putting my own inexperience on the subject ahead of that of so many people who have been brewing this way for many, many batches. Questioning it serves no purpose for me. If they point me to a study that demonstrates that force-carbing could be detrimental to the soft, lingering malt profile that you're trying to protect, where do I go from there? Especially if I haven't compared a spunded beer to a force-carbed beer.

Not sure if someone without an account is able to view this but there is a "CO2 purity" thread HERE. The issue seems to come into play once the beer gets to about 2 weeks old or possibly when the keg gets to about half-full. There are all kinds of percentages and processes thrown around in the thread but the common theme seems to be that a spunded beer stays fresher-tasting longer.

[positiveContact]

That sounds like pretty weak evidence and no I cannot view the thread.

[Big Nake]

That sounds like pretty weak evidence and no I cannot view the thread.

Make an account over there and view the thread or ask about the subject directly. Again, I have no experience with it so I'm relying on the information coming from people far more experienced on the subject than me.

[positiveContact]

If they pointed you to a study I'd say they aren't talking out their ass

If I've learned anything from the brulosophy stuff and Denny's experiments it's that 1 off examples with no control and relying on human perception and memory are not super reliable. Add in the desire to be part of an elite closed off group and I really have to question it even more.

[positiveContact]

Just read a brulosophy I had not seen. Tasters could tell a difference and they preferred the non-lodo beer.

I still wouldn't take this any kind of final word on the matter.

http://brulosophy.co...riment-results/

Edited by pickle_rick, 17 January 2018 - 01:02 PM.

[positiveContact]

Ken, did you get any sulfur when you started using high levels of smb? I use campden tablets now for my town water but at very low levels compared to lodo peeps.

[Big Nake]

I have only tasted one beer made with SMB and there is no sulfur character to it.

[positiveContact]

Make an account over there and view the thread or ask about the subject directly. Again, I have no experience with it so I'm relying on the information coming from people far more experienced on the subject than me.

 

tempting but probably not a good idea.

[neddles]

I have only tasted one beer made with SMB and there is no sulfur character to it.

 

This is my N=1. I did make sure there were no sulfites left before fermentation though.

tempting but probably not a good idea.

Why?

[Big Nake]

This is my N=1. I did make sure there were no sulfites left before fermentation though.

I have no way to know this for sure but my guess is that my process and my equipment will have the SMB working very hard to scavenge all the O2 in my wort and there will be none left. That doesn't mean I think I should use more but I'll be watching this 'sulfur component' very closely. If I detect any of it, that suggests my process is more sound than I thought and some sulfites remained behind and maybe I can use less the next time. But remember that my N=1 was also open-transferred and force-carbed.

[positiveContact]

This is my N=1. I did make sure there were no sulfites left before fermentation though.

Why?

 

I don't do well with people not willing to discuss alternatives.  if there is only one right way I'll get myself kicked out of there pretty quickly.

[neddles]

I don't do well with people not willing to discuss alternatives.  if there is only one right way I'll get myself kicked out of there pretty quickly.

 

Not sure what to tell you. Alternatives to what exactly? 

[positiveContact]

Not sure what to tell you. Alternatives to what exactly?

How they do things.

[Big Nake]

There are all kinds of alternatives.