517 replies to this topic

[denny]

In regard to O2 pickup, I changed nothing in my process other than using Brewtan.  I felt like that was the fairest test of the product itself.

[HVB]

I can't say that I have touched the brewtan or the slurry so I can't compare. What I did notice was that the brewtan dissolved completely in the water and created a clear, tan water. The other thing that occurs to me is that all of us probably have/had varying degrees of O2 pickup from our various processes and systems. Some of us may have been more mindful of O2 pickup and tried to keep it as low as possible. As a result some of us may see a big change in how the finished beer tastes while others will see less difference or maybe none at all. I'm pretty sure that I was not paying attention to O2 pickup until after fermentation which is how I learned. It will be very fun to compare notes when a good number of us have tried this. I have 2 pale ales, a helles and a pils made with brewtan and I may try to pull off a double-brewday weekend with my dark lager recipe on Saturday and another pale ale on Sunday. When changes in process take place like this, I feel like almost every recipe a brewer makes could be "brewed for the first time" all over again. Cheers.

I did not touch it to notice this.  It was as I was stirring it to get it to dissolve.

[Big Nake]

In regard to O2 pickup, I changed nothing in my process other than using Brewtan.  I felt like that was the fairest test of the product itself.

I meant to imply that everyone's process is different and some people may handle the wort more quietly and with less O2 pickup in the first place which might lessen the impact of Brewtan. All of the other steps I took for low-O2 (racking strike water from pot to MT with high temp tubing for example) I threw out the window. The only other thing that I considered and have done once or twice was skipping secondary. I may go back to using a secondary for clarification and additional storage thinking that 1) brewtan will protect me and 2) I can now purge my secondaries with CO2. Oh, and I did pick up a stainless chiller which may or may not have an impact.

[denny]

I have 2 new copper chillers on the way.

[Big Nake]

I have 2 new copper chillers on the way.

O2 pickup be damned!

I suppose that with brewtan protecting your beer, you could do just about anything and not worry about it. You could probably pour your beer from the top of a sky scraper into a beer glass with no worries!

[positiveContact]

O2 pickup be damned!

I suppose that with brewtan protecting your beer, you could do just about anything and not worry about it. You could probably pour your beer from the top of a sky scraper into a beer glass with no worries!

 

I like where this is headed.

[Big Nake]

Here's my take: If the GBF guys work very hard to lower or eliminate O2 pickup and create this very fragile beer whose great character may fade in a very short time and brewtan would allow for the same delicate character but the beer is more stable overall, I see brewtan as the far better choice especially for homebrewers who don't have the time for some of these procedures. Of course I'm not qualified to make that comparison because I never tried the low-O2 process that was laid out by the GBF guys. But it seems to me that if brewtan does all of the things we think it will, it's very easy to use and you can bypass all of the boiling of the wort, underletting the strike water, the SMB, closed transfers and all of that, it's a much easier process overall and not nearly as intimidating and you may get a beer quality that's as good or possibly better (since the brewtan is protecting your beer... the story of the 18-month old cream ale comes to mind). Does anyone think that the GBF guys knew about brewtan while they were on their mission? It can't be a German purity law thing because I would think that SMB would be frowned upon.

[HVB]

. Does anyone think that the GBF guys knew about brewtan while they were on their mission? It can't be a German purity law thing because I would think that SMB would be frowned upon.

First post on Brewtan was May 9th over there so it was after the great paper.

[Big Nake]

First post on Brewtan was May 9th over there so it was after the great paper.

Yeah, I saw that. It was only after Denny mentioned it that it was discussed on their FB group and forum but that doesn't mean they didn't know about it. I suppose it really doesn't matter one way or the other but I would be curious if they knew and chose to go around brewtan for one reason or another.

[HVB]

Yeah, I saw that. It was only after Denny mentioned it that it was discussed on their FB group and forum but that doesn't mean they didn't know about it. I suppose it really doesn't matter one way or the other but I would be curious if they knew and chose to go around brewtan for one reason or another.

I could be wrong but since it was not in German texts I assume they did not know about it.  They seem to live and die by Narziss

[positiveContact]

Yeah, I saw that. It was only after Denny mentioned it that it was discussed on their FB group and forum but that doesn't mean they didn't know about it. I suppose it really doesn't matter one way or the other but I would be curious if they knew and chose to go around brewtan for one reason or another.

 

not exclusive enough.

[Big Nake]

I could be wrong but since it was not in German texts I assume they did not know about it.  They seem to live and die by Narziss

Very possible. I like the idea that someone may be trying to duplicate something or create a unique flavor and look at old-school texts to see if the answer was once known and now forgotten. But I like it even more if that same goal could be accomplished with a new product that was produced by someone who was trying to do the same thing. I'm sure that brewtan had more commercial intentions so that the beer could be packaged, shipped and stored in a more stable way. But if oxidation is indeed an enemy to beer all throughout the process and brewtan protects against it, it could really be a big deal for homebrewers as well. This pale ale I tried yesterday really was quite different than past batches.

[MyaCullen]

O2 pickup be damned!

I suppose that with brewtan protecting your beer, you could do just about anything and not worry about it. You could probably pour your beer from the top of a sky scraper into a beer glass with no worries!

I think the problem with copper in their LODO method is all that damned sulfate they are pouring into the process, copper is highly reactive to sulfates, if they left all that sulfate out they could use copper just fine.  

 

Isn't sulfate prohibited by the Reinheitsgebot anyway?

[Big Nake]

I think the problem with copper in their LODO method is all that damned sulfate they are pouring into the process, copper is highly reactive to sulfates, if they left all that sulfate out they could use copper just fine.  
 
Isn't sulfate prohibited by the Reinheitsgebot anyway?[/size]

I don't know about that. Can you not add things (sulfate, chloride) that is naturally found in water anyway?

You bring up a good point too... with the styles I make, I'm often looking to lower sulfate so the addition of the SMB was another issue in that process. The brewtan takes that issue out of the way for me which is nice. For those looking to make nice IPAs, etc., you can still use brewtan and add gypsum without the need for adjustments. Not sure on the copper + sulfate thing but my old chiller was about 14 years old and could use replacing anyway so I went with the stainless jobbie. For $36, I'm happy with it.

[denny]

O2 pickup be damned!

I suppose that with brewtan protecting your beer, you could do just about anything and not worry about it. You could probably pour your beer from the top of a sky scraper into a beer glass with no worries!

 

Yeah, I just kinda refuse to alter a system that isn't broken, at least to any degree that makes it more difficult.  Plus, I don't care for Helles al that much!

Does anyone think that the GBF guys knew about brewtan while they were on their mission? It can't be a German purity law thing because I would think that SMB would be frowned upon.

 

No, I doubt they did.  And you're correct on the second part also.

Edited by denny, 23 June 2016 - 11:33 AM.

[MyaCullen]

I don't know about that. Can you not add things (sulfate, chloride) that is naturally found in water anyway?

You bring up a good point too... with the styles I make, I'm often looking to lower sulfate so the addition of the SMB was another issue in that process. The brewtan takes that issue out of the way for me which is nice. For those looking to make nice IPAs, etc., you can still use brewtan and add gypsum without the need for adjustments. Not sure on the copper + sulfate thing but my old chiller was about 14 years old and could use replacing anyway so I went with the stainless jobbie. For $36, I'm happy with it.

ack, I meant sulfite not sulfate

[denny]

I don't know about that. Can you not add things (sulfate, chloride) that is naturally found in water anyway?

You bring up a good point too... with the styles I make, I'm often looking to lower sulfate so the addition of the SMB was another issue in that process. The brewtan takes that issue out of the way for me which is nice. For those looking to make nice IPAs, etc., you can still use brewtan and add gypsum without the need for adjustments. Not sure on the copper + sulfate thing but my old chiller was about 14 years old and could use replacing anyway so I went with the stainless jobbie. For $36, I'm happy with it.

 

SMB is sulfite, not sulfate.  One O2 molecule different.

[MyaCullen]

SMB is sulfite, not sulfate.  One O2 molecule different.

my fault. mistype

[Big Nake]

my fault. mistype

SMB is sulfite, not sulfate.  One O2 molecule different.

Yeah, I blame Mic.

[shaggaroo]

SMB is sulfite, not sulfate. One O2 molecule different.

Actually only one O atom different: SO3 v SO4

And where does one buy this infamous brewtan-b?

Edited by shaggaroo, 23 June 2016 - 01:03 PM.