40 replies to this topic

[Big Nake]

I have been seeing people talk about Magnum hops... how clean they are and can be used as a Noble hop but with higher AA%, which sounds great. I stopped into one of the LHBSs today and found some Yakima Magnum hops at 14.4%. Are these the same hop? Is Yakima Magnum the same as Magnum only it's grown in the US? I have an Altbier coming up where I was going to use 7.3 AAU of Tradition, but now I wonder if half an ounce (7.2 AAU) of these would be better. Whatcha think beerheads?

[Humperdink]

I was given a great piece of advice from a brewer named majorvices on another forum regarding magnum. He said (and I am a firm believer now)using noble hops for bittering when you could use magnum is a waste of nobel hops. from my experience, they bitter so clean and smooth that they don't over power the more delicate nobles, they save you money, and leave less hop matter in the bottom of the kettle at flameout due to less required for bittering. That's a win if you ask me. I use them in all things German (except for helles, because they are so delicate I feel i have more control ofver the bittering with a lower alpha hop) for bittering and it's really helped preserve my stash of noble hops. Hope that helps. I've used the Yakima before with great results.

[zymot]

I use magnum when I want bitterness without aggression. I put two ounces of 13% magnum in an double AIPA and it is way smooth. None of that nasty bitter bite that some of the uber hoppy beers can have.Yakima Magnum I can guess, It is close enough to import Magnum. Since Magnum's magic is the neutral profile, any differences would be small. Again speculation on this point.I would not use magnum in an Alt. It is not noble enough for me. First choice for hop, Spalt (if you can get them) 60 minutes only. If you want, a touch of flavor, aroma or FWH. IBU:GU ~0.50The alt I have settled on is base malt: 50% Munich, 50% pale/pilsner plus about a pound of some character malt. Aromatic, caramunich, caravienna, etc. Simple, elegant.Wyeast 1007 is the only choice. If I have to drive or go mail order to get it, I will. No more White labs for me.zymot

[Humperdink]

I use magnum when I want bitterness without aggression. I put two ounces of 13% magnum in an double AIPA and it is way smooth. None of that nasty bitter bite that some of the uber hoppy beers can have.Yakima Magnum I can guess, It is close enough to import Magnum. Since Magnum's magic is the neutral profile, any differences would be small. Again speculation on this point.I would not use magnum in an Alt. It is not noble enough for me. First choice for hop, Spalt (if you can get them) 60 minutes only. If you want, a touch of flavor, aroma or FWH. IBU:GU ~0.50The alt I have settled on is base malt: 50% Munich, 50% pale/pilsner plus about a pound of some character malt. Aromatic, caramunich, caravienna, etc. Simple, elegant.Wyeast 1007 is the only choice. If I have to drive or go mail order to get it, I will. No more White labs for me.zymot

Have you tried the seasonal WL 036 dusseldorf alt yeast? I like it. Or the K-97 dry german yeast? I like that one just as much as any liquid I ahve tried. I like your grain bill by the way, very similar to the way I like mine. I too love spalt hops, but if you add a later addition of spalts, and get your main bitterness from magnum, what are you losing? You're still getting spalt or any other noble hop character without having to use 2X-3X as much...Especially for a N German like I beleive Ken is doing, you don't want a biting bitterness like you would in a Dussy.

[Humperdink]

I have. The 036 doesn't attenuate enough for me. I like em more crisp and dry than 036 can offer. The K-97 lagged for days w/o a start and darn near junked a daym good beer. Stangbat had a thread about K97 over there as well. Not worth trying this yeast again. Just my experiences using these strains, others folks may vary.

Interesting, While I have and have become accustomed to the long lag time in K-97, I hav enever had an issue with it, and generally just split 3 sachets between 12 gallons. I figure it's a hybrid beer and requires more yeast given the temps I expect it to tolerate.I have also never had an issue with attenuation with the 036, It finished within two points of the 1007 in a split batch eperiment I did. But that's why we say YMMV. I haven't had that experience myself, but that doesn't mean Ken would or wouldn't have it on his set up.

[zymot]

Guess we have different views. I like a nice clean bitterness in my IpA's. The course, rough hops like Nook are down right nasty.

Sorry for the confusion, that is the point I was trying to make. Magnum gives you smooth bitterness without that kerosene back of the tongue burn that many IIPA have.Interesting note: SN Torpedo has some of that kerosene bite and they say they use Magnum for bittering. Magnum with some noble FWH is a nice combination or the JPA trick of Northern Brewer for bittering. The American high alphas are not my first choice.

I have. The 036 doesn't attenuate enough for me. I like em more crisp and dry than 036 can offer. The K-97 lagged for days w/o a start and darn near junked a daym good beer. Stangbat had a thread about K97 over there as well. Not worth trying this yeast again. Just my experiences using these strains, others folks may vary.

I have used the 1007 many times and always been happy with the results. I used the WPL036 last year and it was good, I used this year's edition and wasn't so happy.I have never heard of K-97 for an Alt. Something to consider.I guess I do not brew often enough to make saving a couple bucks to choose one hop over another. I get what I think will make the best beer and error on the side of flavor.zymot

[Big Nake]

Good stuff guys. The Altbier was being discussed in the recipe forum and it's a Northern German Alt so the plan was to just use a 60-minute addition. What do you guys think... Tradition or Magnum?

[ncbeerbrewer]

Good stuff guys. The Altbier was being discussed in the recipe forum and it's a Northern German Alt so the plan was to just use a 60-minute addition. What do you guys think... Tradition or Magnum?

Ken. I say go with the Magnum. I too agree and think Mags are an excellent hop. I use them very often and they get the job done well and are very clean as stated too. I don't think you would be disappointed in them.

[Humperdink]

Why not both Ken? you can have low hop aroma etc in a NG alt. If you still want some of the noble character, put an ounce of tradition in at 45 and work backwards to calculate out the bitterness you want/need from your 60 minutes of magnum. Just a thought. Either way you won't be disappointed. I followed the other recipe thread and that wound up looking great. the choice of magnum or tradition or both won't break that solid of a recipe.

[Big Nake]

Maybe I'll stick with the Tradition for this recipe and experiment with the Magnum on something else. I love the sound of these hops, especially is they're as clean as everyone says. I'd like this Alt to be as authentic as possible so I'll go with the Noble hops. Thanks guys!

[Slainte]

FWIW, Hallertauer Tradition isn't a noble hop. The only Hallertauer variety that's noble is Mittelfrueh. :cheers:As for Yakima Magnum, I've used it in A LOT of beers. And every Alt I've ever made, with excellent results. Only as a bittering hop though. It sucks as a flavor hop. It's great for high alpha and clean bittering. Although recently I've been using Horizon for that role and like it even better.

[Salsgebom]

The brewery had a huge backstock of Tradition when I first came aboard so I have used it several times for bittering in several styles. I can now say that I'd prefer Magnum for bittering over Tradition in ANY style. Tradition, well, kinda sucks all around.

[djinkc]

I'll put in another plug for Gr. Magnums, haven't used the Yakima though. Used as bittering in some Alts and some ales too. Great, clean bittering hop.

[chuck_d]

I feel like Magnums work in any beer really, from American IPA to German lager to British milds. Honestly, I'm not sure if I've ever used Yakima Magnums, but the German variety seem like they can be used to just give simple IBUs to a beer without being noticed. It feels like you can blend with any aroma hops to create any hop profile you want when you use Magnum to bitter.

[Big Nake]

Honestly, I'm not sure if I've ever used Yakima Magnums, but the German variety seem like they can be used to just give simple IBUs to a beer without being noticed.

This is the part that slightly concerns me. Is there a difference between Yakima and German? I would hate to try this hop in an Altbier and have it taste like Chinook or something. How many of you guys have used both the German variety and the Yakima version?

[zymot]

If you do a gooogle search for Yakima Magnum, this thread comes up #7. So we are a reference.

Typical alpha: 13.0-15.0%. Spicy, citrusy, super-high alpha bittering hop from the Pacific Northwest.Yakima Magnum 13.5% A West Coast hop with high Alpha Acid. Intensely spicy (black pepper, cinnamon, nutmeg) and slightly citrusy aroma. Excellent bittering hop. Used in American strong ales. Suggested substitutes: German Magnum, Horizon.

https://www.northern...llets-1-oz.htmlhttps://www.midwests...spx?ProdID=3761Based on what I read above and compared to how I think of Gr Magnum, I would say, American and German magnum are different. If you are trying to stay to style, different enough to not use in an Alt. If your goal is to make a tasty beer, I would use them. IMHO, a little citrus and spicy would work well in a typicle Alt. Glass of American Alt anyone?zymot

[drewseslu]

German Magnums are excellent for the reasons others have stated, but I plan to switch to US Magnums when I run through these.Even though I have lots of Summit at a higher alpha I still only bitter using Magnum.As far as what hops are the Germans using? Probably Polish Marynka (think Northern Brewer).