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For those who work at Pro Breweries


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#21 Big Nake

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Posted 06 September 2009 - 02:22 PM

Yesterday one of my friends again is asking when I'm opening the brewery - I always just laugh. On the inside I'm wondering though...

Zym: I always wonder too. Everyone who drinks my beer asks me when I'm opening a brewery. I ask other homebrewers when we're going to open a brewery and they look at me funny like... Dude, I'm an accountant and I need to pay the bills... I don't want to open a BREWERY! Okay, I get that part. I suppose it's like asking Aunt Bunny when she's going to open her own chicken soup restaurant.

I'd say you're right about the likelihood going down the larger the brewery is.. as it should. There's a lot at stake and a larger brewery can easily hire someone with the right education and experience for the job. There are so many factors in commercial brewing that homebrewing will never expose you to. Getting into the appropriate commercial brewing mindset is crucial for upkeeping quality, which was one of the better things I gained from Siebel. Be anal about everything, and be aware that everything makes a difference. There is no such thing as 'close enough', and there's no such thing as 'fixing' a batch. If there is just one person in the brewery (brewer, sanitation crew, QC and QA, managers, cellarmen) who is not following a solid scientific process, then quality goes to shit. Brewery design is critical. Every pathway, if too long or too short, too wide or too skinny, vertical when it should be horizontal, etc etc etc will be a make or break. And it's tricky because you may not have problems with a poor design until you make a subtle change like using a different brand of malt or running something at a slightly different temperature. The brewing process is a chain with hundreds of links and one design or process failure means a broken chain. It's necessary to discover what the industry has already learned thus far (education) and combine that with extensive personal experience to build or run a proper brewery. It's unwise to be any less prepared.

This is a pretty good look inside a pro-brewers head. I have often wondered about people who go off to Siebel and what they picked up that homebrewers don't know. I'm sure that there is a TON of stuff, but it would be interesting to find out what a Siebel student learns that homebrewers would be interested in. I could see the issue of brewing on a commercial scale being weird. I did have the luck of walking around in a local brewery where a local homebrewer got a job (I believe the place hired him not knowing that he really didn't know his way around) and he asked me to help him out. We looked into the giant MT and brew kettle and played with some of the stuff in the walk-in cooler and then went to the supply room with stacks of grain sacks, etc. I would think that brewing on that scale would take some getting used to.

#22 chuck_d

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Posted 06 September 2009 - 02:37 PM

but it would be interesting to find out what a Siebel student learns that homebrewers would be interested in.

Do you mean what at Siebel would help you as a homebrewer, or what at Siebel would you learn about producing commercial beer that you don't already know as a homebrewer?

#23 Salsgebom

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Posted 06 September 2009 - 04:21 PM

Do you mean what at Siebel would help you as a homebrewer, or what at Siebel would you learn about producing commercial beer that you don't already know as a homebrewer?

While the brewing theory is fascinating, it didn't change much of my process. Learning yeast metabolic pathways doesn't change the way I shoot for proper pitching rates and temps, and Im not contacting Weyermann for an altered malt analysis to improve lautering on my keggle. It serves more like a coarse sift to debunk some homebrewing myths. And the more you understand the theory, the better you are at identifying new myths.

#24 MolBasser

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Posted 06 September 2009 - 04:37 PM

I can confidently say that homebrewing 5 gallon batches and proffesionally brewing 200 barrel batches is quite different.The process is the same, but how you go about managing it is very different. Homebrewing helps you understand but it is a completely different animal at the production scale.BrewBasser

#25 ThroatwobblerMangrove

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Posted 06 September 2009 - 06:23 PM

I can confidently say that homebrewing 5 gallon batches and proffesionally brewing 200 barrel batches is quite different.The process is the same, but how you go about managing it is very different. Homebrewing helps you understand but it is a completely different animal at the production scale.BrewBasser

just shit all over our dreams why don't you!!! :P

#26 ncbeerbrewer

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Posted 06 September 2009 - 08:36 PM

just shit all over our dreams why don't you!!! :P

While I don't doubt that brewing commercially and homebrew scale is much different all I can say is that if you have a passion and desire to brew or start a brewery go for it. I brewed back in June at a local microbrewery with a bunch of homebrew club members. I got to help and watch the whole process through. While I am not going to say a 10BBL batch is easy to perform I think its like walking you learn your way and keep going forward. Life is too short and if you can't try and do what you love and wanna be then whats the point. Sure there are roadblocks and challenges but if it is what you wanna be/do then what can stop you?

#27 drewseslu

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Posted 06 September 2009 - 10:02 PM

I can confidently say that homebrewing 5 gallon batches and proffesionally brewing 200 barrel batches is quite different.The process is the same, but how you go about managing it is very different. Homebrewing helps you understand but it is a completely different animal at the production scale.BrewBasser

200bbls! You sellout! No craft brewer makes more than 33bbls at a time...until I take a job at bigger brewery, anyway! :P :facepalm: :) :facepalm: :facepalm:

#28 ThroatwobblerMangrove

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Posted 07 September 2009 - 03:01 AM

While I don't doubt that brewing commercially and homebrew scale is much different all I can say is that if you have a passion and desire to brew or start a brewery go for it. I brewed back in June at a local microbrewery with a bunch of homebrew club members. I got to help and watch the whole process through. While I am not going to say a 10BBL batch is easy to perform I think its like walking you learn your way and keep going forward. Life is too short and if you can't try and do what you love and wanna be then whats the point. Sure there are roadblocks and challenges but if it is what you wanna be/do then what can stop you?

I was kidding mostly there - but you are somewhat right. This is something to try after the kids are born and the wife is back at work pulling in some serious change again. Pretty soon I'll be the only source of income for a little while.

#29 MolBasser

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Posted 07 September 2009 - 10:28 PM

Right now starting a brewery would be pretty rough. At least in the California market. It is pretty saturated and stainless steel is freaking expensive as shizzle right now.It could be done, but you better be ready for some very hard work and some good luck.BrewBasser

#30 Salsgebom

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Posted 07 September 2009 - 11:06 PM

Meanwhile the south-east is undersaturated and so freaking amateur I think we may be the first to discover pathogens that survive in beer. There's plenty of room for those who are serious about quality.

#31 Slainte

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 03:57 PM

Meanwhile the south-east is undersaturated and so freaking amateur I think we may be the first to discover pathogens that survive in beer. There's plenty of room for those who are serious about quality.

Hah, yeah I agree.

#32 chuck_d

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 06:41 PM

While the brewing theory is fascinating, it didn't change much of my process. Learning yeast metabolic pathways doesn't change the way I shoot for proper pitching rates and temps, and Im not contacting Weyermann for an altered malt analysis to improve lautering on my keggle. It serves more like a coarse sift to debunk some homebrewing myths. And the more you understand the theory, the better you are at identifying new myths.

Yeah, I was just curious if Ken was looking for something like the one-day sensory training class that Siebel offers, or more like the subject matter that differentiates commercial training from homebrewing. I bet the sensory training is pretty useful for the homebrewer, but there is gobs of information about malting, filtering and various equipment that I've learning about in my preparatory reading that is essentially meaningless to a homebrewer.

#33 Slainte

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 07:01 PM

I bet the sensory training is pretty useful for the homebrewer

Oh yeah, I would agree. It'll help people identify flaws in their beer, and give them clues how to refine their brewing process and/or recipe formulation to make better beer.

#34 MolBasser

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Posted 09 September 2009 - 01:10 AM

Actually, the sensory training I got at the Davis Master Brewer Program was the most useful module they offered. At least for me.BrewBasser


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