13 replies to this topic

[brewskee]

So I just got some grapes from a local vineyard. The grapes are really good, but that aside, I was wondering if anyone has every cultured yeast from grape skins? I could see the culture being used in spicier Belgian-styles such as Saisons and Biere de Garde. Comments?

[Jimmy James]

I have always wondered about this myself - I grow some fruit in my yard and was thinking someday about culturing some wild yeasts and seeing what I can grow up. My thought would be to streak whatever is growing on the fruit onto plates, then pick and grow up a few colonies and try them in a small batch of test wort. A lot of winemakers use spontaneous fermentations, relying on the yeast that are on the grape skin to ferment the must.

[dmtaylor]

I haven't done this with grapes yet, but I did do a wild fermented Sumerian beer based on the wild yeast on dates, and it turned out wicked awesome. When young, it was a bit sulfury, but that quickly disappeared, leaving just dry mellow fruitiness. Surprisingly excellent and clean, not wild tasting whatsoever.

[strangebrewer]

I have always wondered about this myself - I grow some fruit in my yard and was thinking someday about culturing some wild yeasts and seeing what I can grow up. My thought would be to streak whatever is growing on the fruit onto plates, then pick and grow up a few colonies and try them in a small batch of test wort. A lot of winemakers use spontaneous fermentations, relying on the yeast that are on the grape skin to ferment the must.

I knew this was just starting to come into practice in CA but are a lot of winerys doing it? The winerys that are doing spontaneous fermentations that I know of are all estate wines and they have been adding the post ferment pressed grapes with all the lees back into the fields as fertilizer for years now. It took a while but they now have a thriving population of that particular yeast in the air through this practice.I think it could be a very interesting experiment but unless you are in an area that grows a lot of fruit then it may take a couple tries before you get a strain you want.

[Slainte]

So I just got some grapes from a local vineyard. The grapes are really good, but that aside, I was wondering if anyone has every cultured yeast from grape skins? I could see the culture being used in spicier Belgian-styles such as Saisons and Biere de Garde. Comments?

How could you see the culture being used in those types of beers? Do you know what yeast or bacteria are on the fruit, and what flavors they would give?I'm of the opinion that it might be an ok experiment, and you might turn out a beer that someone wouldn't spit out. But who knows what you're culturing, and what flavors you're going to get.Do you have a microscope?

[brewskee]

How could you see the culture being used in those types of beers? Do you know what yeast or bacteria are on the fruit, and what flavors they would give?I'm of the opinion that it might be an ok experiment, and you might turn out a beer that someone wouldn't spit out. But who knows what you're culturing, and what flavors you're going to get.Do you have a microscope?

I don't know, I guess I just assumed that they were used in wine production and that particular vineyard has quite spicy wines. I don't have a microscope, but I could probably use one up at KU.

[Stout_fan]

Have you ever fermented a beer with a wine yeast?I have, it's not a pretty thing.But nothing ventured, nothing gained.... even if it's just experience. :cheers:Perhaps the wild ones may be a bit less "winey"

[ChefLamont]

I thought about this recently for apples and cider. I have heard that some of the wild yeast on apples can produce cider that is absolutely extraordinary. It would be neat to try to capture or isolate some of these.

[brewskee]

I thought about this recently for apples and cider. I have heard that some of the wild yeast on apples can produce cider that is absolutely extraordinary. It would be neat to try to capture or isolate some of these.

Keyword SOME. I've also heard of people trying it with yeasts on the skins of apples and the cider turned into vinegar.

[ChefLamont]

Keyword SOME. I've also heard of people trying it with yeasts on the skins of apples and the cider turned into vinegar.

Oh most definitely. That is why I thought about capturing and fermenting super small "batches" maybe quart size to see what you'd get. Not only are there all the bacteria that will do bad things like that, but I have heard some of the wild yeast will smell and taste much worse than a jr high locker room in summer school. Just luck of the draw.

[dondewey]

Have you ever fermented a beer with a wine yeast?

Supposedly the Saison Dupont yeast is a wine yeast.

Edited by dondewey, 01 September 2009 - 04:58 PM.

[MolBasser]

Just guessing, but I bet wild grape yeast would make crappy beer.It is worth doing for the experiment though! I would attempt to isolate a single colony on an agar plate to eliminate questions of multiple strains.I say go for it!BrewBasser

[brewskee]

Supposedly the Saison Dupont yeast is a wine yeast.

That wouldn't surprise me at all.

[Jimmy James]

I am not sure which wineries are doing this - I'll have to look for this next time I go to the wine country. It's more something I've read about - and supposedly it's becoming a more common practice as you say. It doesn't surprise me that it's mostly estate wines at this point. The big guys are most certainly pitching cultured yeast. You can purchase media to selectively grow different microbes, I haven't looked into it in a while but there's all sorts of media available so you could fish out the bugs you actually want. It'd basically mean setting up a sorta "lab" in your house/garage. George's brew with the dates also seems to indicate you can get good results without isolating any specific bugs. Ripe dates have sugar more or less oozing through the skin and crystallizing on the surface. Not much else besides Sacchromyces will grow on that surface I'd guess.

I knew this was just starting to come into practice in CA but are a lot of winerys doing it? The winerys that are doing spontaneous fermentations that I know of are all estate wines and they have been adding the post ferment pressed grapes with all the lees back into the fields as fertilizer for years now. It took a while but they now have a thriving population of that particular yeast in the air through this practice.I think it could be a very interesting experiment but unless you are in an area that grows a lot of fruit then it may take a couple tries before you get a strain you want.