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#61 ChicagoWaterGuy

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 07:15 AM

I'm pretty sure my MT is a 10-gallon Rubbermaid/Gott cooler (the big yellow cylinder) so 8 gallons of water in there plus 10-(ish) pounds of grain? I'm thinking that's either going to be very close or it's not enough room. I'm also pretty sure that I'm not totally following the "no-sparge", "BIAB", etc. These terms are causing some cloudiness in my head. If I put 8 gallons of water and 10 lbs of grain in my MT, mashed it, recirced it and drained it, would that be "no-sparge"? And there is NO drawback to having all of the water in there with the grains aside from possibly losing efficiency? Strange. I actually can't believe that at one time I did two sparges. But I was just following orders. :P

I use a 70 quart cooler for 5 gallon batches but there's plenty of room. 8 gallons plus 10 pounds of grain would most likely fit in your 10 gallon cooler. Down side is possible loss efficiency. Upside is your pH doesn't change when sparging.



#62 Big Nake

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 07:28 AM

I use a 70 quart cooler for 5 gallon batches but there's plenty of room. 8 gallons plus 10 pounds of grain would most likely fit in your 10 gallon cooler. Down side is possible loss efficiency. Upside is your pH doesn't change when sparging.

Neither of those things would make me lose sleep. I feel like I have a handle on the pH thing (meter behaving itself and lactic acid) so the sparge doesn't bother me and I make relatively small beers so a couple ticks down in efficiency is pretty minimal. But I do wonder about the reintroduction of the sparge water (even if the pH *IS* kept in check) and whether that does anything good or bad with the final beer. Would it be beneficial for the grains and water to all be mixed together just one time (with the proper pH) and left alone for 60-90 minutes, recirc, drain and go? I sort of hate to try that but maybe if I'm feeling adventurous one day I'll try it on something I know well like MLPA or something similar.

#63 SchwanzBrewer

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 07:28 AM

No sparge would make doing step mashes a lot easier too.



#64 neddles

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 07:33 AM

Brauer, The idea of adding only part of the water to the mash when no-sparging can be found on some BIAB forums as theguv suggests and several other places. The linked blog suggests that it is also the technique Gordon Strong advocates in his book Brewing Better Beer. I dont have the book so I cannot confirm that. https://meekbrewingc...ach-to.html?m=1

#65 ChicagoWaterGuy

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 08:32 AM

Neither of those things would make me lose sleep. I feel like I have a handle on the pH thing (meter behaving itself and lactic acid) so the sparge doesn't bother me and I make relatively small beers so a couple ticks down in efficiency is pretty minimal. But I do wonder about the reintroduction of the sparge water (even if the pH *IS* kept in check) and whether that does anything good or bad with the final beer. Would it be beneficial for the grains and water to all be mixed together just one time (with the proper pH) and left alone for 60-90 minutes, recirc, drain and go? I sort of hate to try that but maybe if I'm feeling adventurous one day I'll try it on something I know well like MLPA or something similar.

I used to fly sparge. The two major reasons I switched are that 1 you only need two vessels and 2 it's sooo much easier. BIABers can say they only need one vessel but I really don't want to lift an entire mash worth of wet grain and I already have the cooler.



#66 Big Nake

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 08:59 AM

I used to fly sparge. The two major reasons I switched are that 1 you only need two vessels and 2 it's sooo much easier. BIABers can say they only need one vessel but I really don't want to lift an entire mash worth of wet grain and I already have the cooler.

Ooh, yeah... lifting the cooler with 8 gallons of water plus the grain would su-uh-uh-ck. Now that I think about it, I only use a 5-gal pot to heat mash & sparge water so I would need to heat all 8 gallons in my kettle on a burner in the garage and then dump that into the cooler with the grains. There would be more to this than I originally envisioned.

#67 Brauer

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 09:11 AM

Brauer, The idea of adding only part of the water to the mash when no-sparging can be found on some BIAB forums as theguv suggests and several other places. The linked blog suggests that it is also the technique Gordon Strong advocates in his book Brewing Better Beer. I dont have the book so I cannot confirm that. https://meekbrewingc...ach-to.html?m=1

I find that Gordon has a few, let's say, "original" ideas, but some people advocate it as a way to intentionally reduce efficiency to improve wort quality. I find that a standard no-sparge, with full volume is enough to improve wort quality. Ken, that should deal with your question, too, about how no sparge will hurt your beer; it won't, it will probably improve it. It improved the quality of my beers. I might not, if you don't believe in tannins. And, as was already said, step mashes become really easy, which is why I do them every time. I would only have the full volume in for the last 10-30 minutes, though, for the final step. From what BIAB-era sat, though, it shouldn't matter. As far as tun size, I make 3 gallon batches in a 5 gallon tun, so you should be able to do 5 gallon batches in a 10 gallon tun. 1.056 is a big Pilsner, though, so I probably never have gone that high in OG.

#68 positiveContact

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 09:31 AM

I'm thinking about going to no sparge for all of my 1.055 and lower beers.  I don't care about efficiency from a buying grain perspective.  it's already cheap enough.



#69 Big Nake

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 09:55 AM

I'm thinking about going to no sparge for all of my 1.055 and lower beers.  I don't care about efficiency from a buying grain perspective.  it's already cheap enough.

Hey, this is perfect. Guv, try some no-sparge mashes on some low(er) gravity beers and then report back so I can go to school on your experience. :P

#70 positiveContact

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 10:21 AM

Hey, this is perfect. Guv, try some no-sparge mashes on some low(er) gravity beers and then report back so I can go to school on your experience. :P

 

no problem.  i don't really have a problem i'm trying to correct but i guess if the beers suddenly seem tastier i'll let you know.  i figure worst case I'll take a small efficiency hit but have a slightly more streamlined brew day.



#71 positiveContact

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 10:27 AM

next beer I'll probably do will be my split batch of pale ale (one using US-05 and the other using S-04).  It won't be crazy bitter but may be fairly hoppy.  Hopefully it would be a good test case.



#72 Big Nake

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 03:17 PM

next beer I'll probably do will be my split batch of pale ale (one using US-05 and the other using S-04).  It won't be crazy bitter but may be fairly hoppy.  Hopefully it would be a good test case.

Keep us posted. I have no issue trying this but there are a few wrinkles to iron out. Cheers.

#73 ChicagoWaterGuy

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 06:28 PM

Ah, so essentially the same as my BIAB process except I don't recirc. Very interested. Care to share a hop schedule on that one?

.25 @ 60 .75 @ 20 .50 @ 5 All 7.4% aa German Organic Hallertau

#74 neddles

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 06:31 PM

.25 @ 60 .75 @ 20 .50 @ 5 All 7.4% aa German Organic Hallertau

Greatly appreciated.




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