73 replies to this topic

[Big Nake]

I've made some decent pale beers this spring with some new processes. We had some family over yesterday and a number of people were drinking this Czech Pilsner I made with 2278. It came out really nicely and everyone drinking it mentioned that they really liked it. On a beer like that (and other pale beers like Kolsch or Helles), I will use pilsner malt along with small amounts of Munich, Vienna, Wheat, Carahell, Carafoam, etc. I think I want to try to make a beer with just pilsner malt. Using only pilsner would require the right hops and the right yeast and the correct processes, I assume. I'm thinking about 10 lbs of Best Malz Pils and then all Spalt hops and 2124. I really liked the way the Spalt hops worked in my Kolsch... about 5 AAU for 60 minutes (about 1.5 ounces) and then a half ounce at 20 minutes. The Spalts have a nice, fresh & spicy character that I really like. Does anyone have any direction for me? Add 4 ounces of Carafoam or something? It would probably look like this: 10 lbs Best Malz Pils 1.5 ounces Spalt pellets 3.2% for 60 .5 ounces Spalt pellets 3.2% for 20 Wyeast 2124 Bohemian OG: 1.057, FG: 1.012, SRM: 3, IBU: 25, ABV: 5.5.%

[MyaCullen]

maybe up that late addition? what are you gonna mash at?

[SchwanzBrewer]

Either acid malt or acid addition to make sure PH is fine.

 

other than that, you might consider a 2 hour boil to get some nice light melanoidins and complex malt character and possibly a little body?

[Big Nake]

maybe up that late addition? what are you gonna mash at?

I was going to do a single infusion mash at about 150°. If you're thinking that might be low or that the beer would be boring that way, I am also going to use 100% filtered tap water and just add about 3g of CaCl which would make the beer lean towards the full & round side of things. I could also see either a larger 20-minute addition or something else around 10 or 5.

Either acid malt or acid addition to make sure PH is fine. other than that, you might consider a 2 hour boil to get some nice light melanoidins and complex malt character and possibly a little body?

I will definitely be using lactic acid to make sure all of the pH numbers line up, no question. I could see the longer boil too but I usually don't... maybe I'll flip a coin on that one. Thanks for the input gang... keep 'em coming.

[ChicagoWaterGuy]

Looks good except the spalt hop they aren't my favorite. I'd go with the 60 minute addition then a 15 and 5. Makes me want to brew something similar with hallertau blanc hops, but I do love brewing smash German lagers.

[Big Nake]

Looks good except the spalt hop they aren't my favorite. I'd go with the 60 minute addition then a 15 and 5. Makes me want to brew something similar with hallertau blanc hops, but I do love brewing smash German lagers.

Seriously on the Spalts? They're noble, ya know? This latest kolsch I made with them had such a great hop character. But I also have a bunch of other stuff including Hallertau, Tettnanger, Perle, Santiam, Mt. Hood, Opal, Hallertau Select, Brewer's Gold, German Merkur and some other 'clean' stuff. I decided to use German Brewer's Gold as the bittering hop in my Hacienda Lager this morning. They smelled very nice when I opened the package and even better when I dropped them into the boil.

[ChicagoWaterGuy]

I think I had a bad experience with them years ago. It was an overcomplicated alt beer. The malt and spalt didn't play nice. My recipes are much simpler now so maybe I'll give them another go.

[Big Nake]

I think I had a bad experience with them years ago. It was an overcomplicated alt beer. The malt and spalt didn't play nice. My recipes are much simpler now so maybe I'll give them another go.

I know it sounds unbelievable but I remember Old Style commercials from when I was younger and I can still remember them saying "Brewed with Spalt and Hallertau hops and fully Kraeusened". How on Earth does a 10-yo kid remember something like that? You have a can of Old Style in your avatar so giddy up and make a Pilsner with all pilsner malt and Spalt hops. Go ahead and kraeusen it while you're at it.

[MyaCullen]

Looks good except the spalt hop they aren't my favorite. I'd go with the 60 minute addition then a 15 and 5. Makes me want to brew something similar with hallertau blanc hops, but I do love brewing smash German lagers.

my got to hop schedule for a Pilsner is 20 Ibus to bitter, 5 Ibus @ 20 minutes and a flameout Whirlpool hit of about 1 oz,  I like most any Hallertauer (except Tradition) Saaz, Sterling, Santiam, Mt Hood, German Tett

Edited by miccullen, 14 July 2014 - 04:43 PM.

[ChicagoWaterGuy]

All the old guys around here still drink oldstyle. Ive been known to have a can or two with them, not sure I want 5 gallons. I'm making a 2408 starter right now for my all pils/hallertau helles.

[Big Nake]

All the old guys around here still drink oldstyle. Ive been known to have a can or two with them, not sure I want 5 gallons. I'm making a 2408 starter right now for my all pils/hallertau helles.

2308?

my got to hop schedule for a Pilsner is 20 Ibus to bitter, 5 Ibus @ 20 minutes and a flameout Whirlpool hit of about 1 oz,  I like most any Hallertauer (except Tradition) Saaz, Sterling, Santiam, Mt Hood, German Tett

Tradition is okay as a bittering hop. I did add some late one time and did not care for it in that capacity. I like that hop schedule you have there and maybe I'll noodle with it a little bit. I might do some CaraFoam (4 ounces or something) but I still expect a very pale beer.

[ChicagoWaterGuy]

my got to hop schedule for a Pilsner is 20 Ibus to bitter, 5 Ibus @ 20 minutes and a flameout Whirlpool hit of about 1 oz, I like most any Hallertauer (except Tradition) Saaz, Sterling, Santiam, Mt Hood, German Tett

These days I save the whirlpool for American styles and stick to a 5 minute aroma addition on lagers. I might go back to a whirlpool with the new aromatic German hops. Yup, 2308. Fat fingers on the phone.

Edited by ChicagoWaterGuy, 14 July 2014 - 04:53 PM.

[MyaCullen]

These days I save the whirlpool for American styles and stick to a 5 minute aroma addition on lagers. I might go back to a whirlpool with the new aromatic German hops. Yup, 2308. Fat fingers on the phone.

I haven't decided if I like it better as a Whirlpool or 5 myself, jury's still out

[matt6150]

So do you guys not do step mash and protein rest when using all or mostly Pils? A guy in my club was saying last night that it is a must. I don't have much experience with Pils so didn't have much feedback. I did however just brew a Saison with mostly Pils so I will see how it turns out.

[SchwanzBrewer]

So do you guys not do step mash and protein rest when using all or mostly Pils? A guy in my club was saying last night that it is a must. I don't have much experience with Pils so didn't have much feedback. I did however just brew a Saison with mostly Pils so I will see how it turns out.

 

I don't think there's any real reason to other than trying to make it with a traditional method. I only do 1 sac rest around 148 for my Kolsch and Alt. I get 90-100% conversion every time. The malts don't need all those protein rests and decoctions anymore.

[Big Nake]

So do you guys not do step mash and protein rest when using all or mostly Pils? A guy in my club was saying last night that it is a must. I don't have much experience with Pils so didn't have much feedback. I did however just brew a Saison with mostly Pils so I will see how it turns out.

Rich's answer is the one you usually see... "Our well-modified malts don't require it!" and you also see people saying that you could do that if you wanted to see how the Czechs and Germans did it years ago. But if you have a local brewer who says that it's a must... I'd like to hear his reasoning as to why and what character he gets when he does them. I don't have a direct-fired MT so it would be tricky for me to do but it wouldn't be impossible. Matt, could you ask your bud how he does it (stop at 113° for 15 mins, then stop at 130° for 15 mins...) and also ask him what the benefit is (better body, more fermentable wort, better clarity, overall better flavor, etc). Rich, I see answers like yours all the time and tend to agree which is why I haven't done any step mashes. But I equate this topic with one like "batch spargers can't extract huge amounts of tannins... it's impossible!" which I heard many, many times from homebrewers and I know that's not true. So things like this make me want to stop and check it out.

[matt6150]

We the answers you just gave is what I told him and he just shrugged. I believe he said he does a 30min rest at 120 then up to mash temp. He claimed better clarity and body were his reasons for doing it.

[Big Nake]

We the answers you just gave is what I told him and he just shrugged. I believe he said he does a 30min rest at 120 then up to mash temp. He claimed better clarity and body were his reasons for doing it.

I'm confused. Does he say that step mashing with an all-pils grain bill is a must or no? If he says it's a must, does he know why? So his only rest is at 120° for 30 minutes and then he goes to 150° or so? Maybe I'm not seeing this clearly but if he thinks it's a must, I don't know why he shrugged. I'm looking for the process and reasons or perceived reasons. I would totally try it because one rest would be relatively easy. Heat to 125 or 130, add water, adjust if necessary, leave it and then bring the rest of the water up closer to boiling and add that until I reach 150 and leave it for another 30 minutes.

[neddles]

I'm confused. Does he say that step mashing with an all-pils grain bill is a must or no? If he says it's a must, does he know why? So his only rest is at 120° for 30 minutes and then he goes to 150° or so? Maybe I'm not seeing this clearly but if he thinks it's a must, I don't know why he shrugged. I'm looking for the process and reasons or perceived reasons. I would totally try it because one rest would be relatively easy. Heat to 125 or 130, add water, adjust if necessary, leave it and then bring the rest of the water up closer to boiling and add that until I reach 150 and leave it for another 30 minutes.

Wouldn't you still need a 60 min starch conversion rest?

[matt6150]

He still does the 60 min starch rest at 150 or whatever. He shrugged because he didn't believe or want to listen to my reasons not too. He just claims it is a must from his experiences.