76 replies to this topic

[denny]

you are talking about what an oz in 5 gallons? I have to agree the color will come through stronger than the flavor

 

I agree.  In thinking about this, I wonder if the idea is that the RB will pull down the beer pH a bit, enhancing stability?  If so, I wonder how much difference it makes?  It sounds like Blktre is doing it for color, but I doubt that's the reason behind the recommendation I've always heard.

[BlKtRe]

you are talking about what an oz in 5 gallons? I have to agree the color will come through stronger than the flavor

I'd have to check PM to give you an exact answer on batch and total amount of grist but it's in the neighborhood of 1/2 oz. Just enough to give it a pretty color. I'm sure this goes against all the people that think the BJCP guidelines is gospel and not just a guideline (which they are just that) from some of the comments here.

[denny]

I'd have to check PM to give you an exact answer on batch and total amount of grist but it's in the neighborhood of 1/2 oz. Just enough to give it a pretty color. I'm sure this goes against all the people that think the BJCP guidelines is gospel and not just a guideline (which they are just that) from some of the comments here.

 

For me, it has nothing to do with BJCP.  I just don't my G pils any color other than yellow.  If you do, that's fine with me.

[BlKtRe]

For me, it has nothing to do with BJCP. I just don't my G pils any color other than yellow. If you do, that's fine with me.

It's a nice change on occasion. Samo Samo is so boring.

[Steve Urquell]

Samo Samo is so boring.

Same here. Thats why Ive been working my way thru these Czech beer styles as best as I can. Ive been using beer ratings for commercial versions as my flavor guide. My polotmave vycepni came out nice. No BJCP support in sight.https://patto1ro.hom...zecintr.htm#tsp

Edited by chils, 17 November 2013 - 03:08 PM.

[denny]

It's a nice change on occasion. Samo Samo is so boring.

 

To me, being able to do Samo Samo is the mark of my brewing skill.

[Mya]

To me, being able to do Samo Samo is the mark of my brewing skill.

too many beers I haven't made yet!

[BlKtRe]

Same here. Thats why Ive been working my way thru these Czech beer styles as best as I can. Ive been using beer ratings for commercial versions as my flavor guide. My polotmave vycepni came out nice. No BJCP support in sight.https://patto1ro.hom...zecintr.htm#tsp

Cool site. Thanks for sharing. In pocket for later

[BlKtRe]

To me, being able to do Samo Samo is the mark of my brewing skill.

Can't argue with that.

[Brauer]

 

Same here. Thats why Ive been working my way thru these Czech beer styles as best as I can. Ive been using beer ratings for commercial versions as my flavor guide. My polotmave vycepni came out nice. No BJCP support in sight.https://patto1ro.hom...zecintr.htm#tsp

 

Some pubs in Prague make this at the tap by combining Czech Dunkel and Pilsner (perhaps that explains: "Some breweries call it Rizek or “cut”, meaning a mix of pale and dark"). So, that might give you an idea of the flavor, too.

 

Cool site. Thanks for sharing. In pocket for later

 

I used that site extensively for reference when I went to the Czech Republic.

[Steve Urquell]

Some pubs in Prague make this at the tap by combining Czech Dunkel and Pilsner (perhaps that explains: "Some breweries call it Rizek or “cut”, meaning a mix of pale and dark"). [/size]So, that might give you an idea of the flavor, too. I used that site extensively for reference when I went to the Czech Republic.

When I brewed it I cut the U Fleku recipe in half and added more FM bopils malt to bring gravity to 1.036.

[positiveContact]

You can't taste it so the flavor component is not there. A few people here visualize they can obviously.

 

you never really said how much you were putting in.

[BlKtRe]

you never really said how much you were putting in.

Pulled up the recipe in PM and here are the specifics of the use of RB in a BoPils...

 

10.5g batch

27.21 grams/.3% of the grist

5.3 SRM

1.056 OG/80% eff. 

 

BJCP:SRM 3.5-6.0 for a BoPils and 2.0-5.0 for a Gr. Pils

 

So as you can see the RB does nothing for taste but does a lot of nice things for color. 

 

Fwiw, this particular beer scored a 45 and a BOS. I hate having to use score sheets from comps to prove basis as I don't think BJCP competitions really prove anything unless a brewer is looking to fix problematic beers. But that's for a different discussion. 

Edited by BlKtRe, 18 November 2013 - 07:14 AM.

[HVB]

Pulled up the recipe in PM and here are the specifics of the use of RB in a BoPils...

 

So as you can see the RB does nothing for taste but does a lot of nice things for color. 

 

I assume that something like midnight wheat would also work for this minor color change.

[BlKtRe]

I assume that something like midnight wheat would also work for this minor color change.

In theory yes since lovibond is close to the same. But in quoting Denny I have no scientific evidence with the use of MW in a Pilsner so I cant say for sure unlike my use of RB. Now will some of the body from MW carry over into the beer? Id say no because of the small amount used but I can see now how some people would think it could. 

[positiveContact]

In theory yes since lovibond is close to the same. But in quoting Denny I have no scientific evidence with the use of MW in a Pilsner so I cant say for sure unlike my use of RB. Now will some of the body from MW carry over into the beer? Id say no because of the small amount used but I can see now how some people would think it could. 

 

to be fair it takes whole lot more wheat to impart body than it does for RB to impart roastiness.  if you are adding as little as you say i'm not suprised that most people wouldn't be able to detect it.  i say most people b/c there are always those super tasters out there.  it's certainly a non-traditional choice - not just when viewing through the eyes of the BJCP either.  i don't care too much about that though.  it's still delicious beer.  what I didn't like initially was your reaction to the people who questioned if this made sense.  no one was being harsh - up to that point it seemed like we were talking an ounce or two of RB.  i feel fairly certain i'd be able to detect that in a pilsner.  if we are actually talking a teeny tiny amount probably not.

[BlKtRe]

to be fair it takes whole lot more wheat to impart body than it does for RB to impart roastiness.  if you are adding as little as you say i'm not suprised that most people wouldn't be able to detect it.  i say most people b/c there are always those super tasters out there.  it's certainly a non-traditional choice - not just when viewing through the eyes of the BJCP either.  i don't care too much about that though.  it's still delicious beer.  what I didn't like initially was your reaction to the people who questioned if this made sense.  no one was being harsh - up to that point it seemed like we were talking an ounce or two of RB.  i feel fairly certain i'd be able to detect that in a pilsner.  if we are actually talking a teeny tiny amount probably not.

 

To be fair I was on the receiving end so I felt it was harsh coming from the fact nobody has sampled the beer to have an opinion on the matter other than ZOMG. If people like you think they can taste it I'm not going to argue with you. I just don't agree that you can since you said you couldn't taste it in teeny tiny amounts. Which is the case with my beer. The numbers I posted with the use of RB speak for themselves. 

[positiveContact]

To be fair I was on the receiving end so I felt it was harsh coming from the fact nobody has sampled the beer to have an opinion on the matter other than ZOMG. If people like you think they can taste it I'm not going to argue with you. I just don't agree that you can since you said you couldn't taste it in teeny tiny amounts. Which is the case with my beer. The numbers I posted with the use of RB speak for themselves. 

 

less than an ounce for 10+ gallons is probably close to the threshold for me.  could be just below.  hard to tell.  before it seemed like we were talking 1-2 oz in a 5 gallon batch.  there was some confusion based on what dj was posting.

 

as for the bolded part - yikes.  this is the beer forum.

[Big Nake]

Let me suggest something and you guys can tell me if it holds water.  I see some brewers who like to brew certain styles (let's say IPA) and so when they make another style that they don't make that often, they may hop the bejesus out of it because that's what they like or what they're used to.  If someone makes a lot of stouts and porters, they may find ways to incorporate darker grains into other styles (Dark Lagers, Black Pilsners, etc).  I'm not referring to Andy's use of small amounts of RB in his pilsner because it's obviously not dark or black when it's done.  I'm certainly guilty of this because in almost any beer I make, you might find a German component that doesn't necessarily belong there but I like German yeast, grains and hops so I use them where I like.  I don't think there's any reason to get chippy and if my initial reaction to Andy's comment was offensive, well then I apologize.  It's always been about making what you like and it still is.  But that doesn't mean that someone can't have their opinion or poke some fun about something.

[positiveContact]

Let me suggest something and you guys can tell me if it holds water.  I see some brewers who like to brew certain styles (let's say IPA) and so when they make another style that they don't make that often, they may hop the bejesus out of it because that's what they like or what they're used to.  If someone makes a lot of stouts and porters, they may find ways to incorporate darker grains into other styles (Dark Lagers, Black Pilsners, etc).  I'm not referring to Andy's use of small amounts of RB in his pilsner because it's obviously not dark or black when it's done.  I'm certainly guilty of this because in almost any beer I make, you might find a German component that doesn't necessarily belong there but I like German yeast, grains and hops so I use them where I like.  I don't think there's any reason to get chippy and if my initial reaction to Andy's comment was offensive, well then I apologize.  It's always been about making what you like and it still is.  But that doesn't mean that someone can't have their opinion or poke some fun about something.

 

we all have things we like.  i'm not sure i have a common thread with my beers.

 

and i agree with you ken.  i think the PH attitude is spilling over here.  we've all been guilty of it from time to time.

Edited by TheGuv, 18 November 2013 - 11:03 AM.