29 replies to this topic

[Big Nake]

School me. Special B is basically Belgian C120, no? The BCS ESB recipe has a 1/4# of C120 in it. Cant be too out of place, is it?

Special B usually clocks in around 155°L or so.  I don't want to talk anyone out of using what they have but authentic bitters, EBSs or English Pale Ales would not have Special B in them, AFAIK.  Remember that I subscribe to the idea that you should brew what you like.  But with English and German beers, I try to make them as authentically as possible because we have access to all those great ingredients.  I like Special B and use it liberally but using it in an ESB to me is like using it in a Festbier... it just doesn't belong in there.  School's out. 

[Mya]

Special B usually clocks in around 155°L or so.  I don't want to talk anyone out of using what they have but authentic bitters, EBSs or English Pale Ales would not have Special B in them, AFAIK.  Remember that I subscribe to the idea that you should brew what you like.  But with English and German beers, I try to make them as authentically as possible because we have access to all those great ingredients.  I like Special B and use it liberally but using it in an ESB to me is like using it in a Festbier... it just doesn't belong in there.  School's out. 

funny though the Brits and the Germans sometimes use import ingredients in their beers 

[neddles]

Special B usually clocks in around 155°L or so.  I don't want to talk anyone out of using what they have but authentic bitters, EBSs or English Pale Ales would not have Special B in them, AFAIK.  Remember that I subscribe to the idea that you should brew what you like.  But with English and German beers, I try to make them as authentically as possible because we have access to all those great ingredients.  I like Special B and use it liberally but using it in an ESB to me is like using it in a Festbier... it just doesn't belong in there.  School's out.

Castle special B is 114L and Dingeman's is rated 140-155L. However I grant you that C120 ≠ Special B and English crystal ≠ Belgian crystal. 

 

Now, I always have a lot of questions when people claim one thing is more authentic then another. And in some situations it is clear.  But in no other style have I seen more different and often incongruous claims to authenticity than english pale. Some say it must have a portion of wheat, some say no. Some say it must have a small % of sugar, some say no. Some say crystal is OK, some say no. Others will tell you it's not authentic if not served on cask. I've even heard it claimed that it must use MO... others say Halcyon, optic, GP, etc are fine. 

 

I heard older brewing network interview recently where they talked to the brewmaster at a british brewery. He said that the whole torrified wheat thing was a function of geography. In some parts of Britain (cant remember but either north or south) they include the wheat for the head retention, while in other parts of the country having any head on their bitter is considered an abomination.

 

Also, to nail "authentic" don't you have to have a more specific place and time period too? These styles had to evolve from something else. 

 

Sorry for the rant. And I totally agree, brew what you like. It just seems like English Pale is more open to interpretation than many claim, don't you think?

Edited by ettels4, 28 July 2013 - 07:13 PM.

[Mya]

 

Castle special B is 114L and Dingeman's is rated 140-155L. However I grant you that C120 ≠ Special B and English crystal ≠ Belgian crystal. 

 

Now, I always have a lot of questions when people claim one thing is more authentic then another. And in some situations it is clear.  But in no other style have I seen more different and often incongruous claims to authenticity than english pale. Some say it must have a portion of wheat, some say no. Some say it must have a small % of sugar, some say no. Some say crystal is OK, some say no. Others will tell you it's not authentic if not served on cask. I've even heard it claimed that it must use MO... others say Halcyon, optic, GP, etc are fine. 

 

I heard older brewing network interview recently where they talked to the brewmaster at a british brewery. He said that the whole torrified wheat thing was a function of geography. In some parts of Britain (cant remember but either north or south) they include the wheat for the head retention, while in other parts of the country having any head on their bitter is considered an abomination.

 

Also, to nail "authentic" don't you have to have a more specific place and time period too? These styles had to evolve from something else. 

 

Sorry for the rant. And I totally agree, brew what you like. It just seems like English Pale is more open to interpretation than many claim, don't you think?

 

from what I understand it's a far more open style than we are led to believe by style guidelines published here, All I am looking to make is a ballpark approximation of an ESB as you'd find in a run of the mill English Pub however.

[Big Nake]

 

Castle special B is 114L and Dingeman's is rated 140-155L. However I grant you that C120 ≠ Special B and English crystal ≠ Belgian crystal. 

 

Now, I always have a lot of questions when people claim one thing is more authentic then another. And in some situations it is clear.  But in no other style have I seen more different and often incongruous claims to authenticity than english pale. Some say it must have a portion of wheat, some say no. Some say it must have a small % of sugar, some say no. Some say crystal is OK, some say no. Others will tell you it's not authentic if not served on cask. I've even heard it claimed that it must use MO... others say Halcyon, optic, GP, etc are fine. 

 

I heard older brewing network interview recently where they talked to the brewmaster at a british brewery. He said that the whole torrified wheat thing was a function of geography. In some parts of Britain (cant remember but either north or south) they include the wheat for the head retention, while in other parts of the country having any head on their bitter is considered an abomination.

 

Also, to nail "authentic" don't you have to have a more specific place and time period too? These styles had to evolve from something else. 

 

Sorry for the rant. And I totally agree, brew what you like. It just seems like English Pale is more open to interpretation than many claim, don't you think?

 

I do think so.  I know a local brewer who says that quite a few English breweries use corn in their beers too.  Not sure on that.  My use of the word 'authentic' just means that I would prefer to use British ingredients in a bitter, EPA, ESB, etc.  I would not wring my hands over MO, Halcyon, etc.  One LHBS near me sells "UK PALE MALT" which is made by PAUL'S MALT.  I had never heard of it but a few brewers told me that they produce very nice British Pale Ale malt.  Okay, fine by me.  English hops I consider a must and why not?  I like their profile, generally.  With the crystal, my only peeve would be someone who might just use Briess C60 or something.  If that's absolutely all you can find, okay.  But my [small] LHBS sells 5 or 6 different kinds of British crystal and I think there is a difference.  The 'cask' thing I don't pay much attention to but I do carb my English beers a little lower than others just because it's supposed to be less carbed.  It's still served by gas and it's still WAY colder than they would serve it there.  I wouldn't be a Nazi about it but I have seen people say that they're making an ESB with Pilsner malt, American C60, chocolate, Spalt hops and 1056. I'm sure it would be delicious but I would attack it differently.

Edited by KenLenard, 28 July 2013 - 07:25 PM.

[Mya]

I do think so.  I know a local brewer who says that quite a few English breweries use corn in their beers too.  Not sure on that.  My use of the word 'authentic' just means that I would prefer to use British ingredients in a bitter, EPA, ESB, etc.  I would not wring my hands over MO, Halcyon, etc.  One LHBS near me sells "UK PALE MALT" which is made by PAUL'S MALT.  I had never heard of it but a few brewers told me that they produce very nice British Pale Ale malt.  Okay, fine by me.  English hops I consider a must and why not?  I like their profile, generally.  With the crystal, my only peeve would be someone who might just use Briess C60 or something.  If that's absolutely all you can find, okay.  But my [small] LHBS sells 5 or 6 different kinds of British crystal and I think there is a difference.  The 'cask' thing I don't pay much attention to but I do carb my English beers a little lower than others just because it's supposed to be less carbed.  It's still served by gas and it's still WAY colder than they would serve it there.  I wouldn't be a Nazi about it but I have seen people say that they're making an ESB with Pilsner malt, American C60, chocolate, Spalt hops and 1056. I'm sure it would be delicious but I would attack it differently.

that's more like an American ish Alt than an ESB

[Big Nake]

that's more like an American ish Alt than an ESB

Just an example of things that make you go, Hmmm...  On Northern Brewer the other day, a guy wanted to make a "pilsner" with 2-row, victory, C60, Maris Otter and Chocolate malt, Centennial and Cascade hops and Steam/Common yeast.  Again, sounds like it could be a very nice beer but why on Earth are you calling it a Pilsner? 

[Mya]

Just an example of things that make you go, Hmmm...  On Northern Brewer the other day, a guy wanted to make a "pilsner" with 2-row, victory, C60, Maris Otter and Chocolate malt, Centennial and Cascade hops and Steam/Common yeast.  Again, sounds like it could be a very nice beer but why on Earth are you calling it a Pilsner? 

because they are delusional?

[Big Nake]

because they are delusional?

 

[font="'comic sans ms', cursive;"]DING![/font]

[Mya]

brewed this today

 

hit everything pretty much spot on, 4 hours 45 minutes from going outside to cleaned up and completely done

 

it's up to the yeasties now!

 

final recipe was 

 

9.5 lbs T. Fawcett Halcyon Pale Malt

1.0 lbs Bairds 55L Medium Crystal Malt

mashed @ 153F for 60 minutes @1.5Qts/gallon

used the Amber Bitter water profile from bru'n water

pH measured 5.2 from a cooled sample

 

25 IBUS of Phoenix (UK) Pellets @ 60 minutes

12 IBUS of EK Goldings (UK) Pellets @30 minutes .75 oz

1.25 oz of EK Goldings (UK) Pellets 175f Whirlpool Addition

 

Whirlfloc @ 10 minutes

 

cooled to 66F, transfered to Primary, aerated with O2 stone for 60 seconds, then cold pitched a rinsed 500ml Slurry of 1028 harvested last week, already have positive displacement from the blowoff tube.