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Blackberry Cyser


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#1 EWW

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Posted 31 July 2009 - 08:58 PM

blackberries are coming out like crazy on the road side ... anyone have a good blackberry mead recipe they would be willing to share?
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#2 EWW

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Posted 01 August 2009 - 12:31 PM

After some more thought, I'm thinking about a blackberry cyser...maybe 7lbs neutral honey, 4 gallons apple juice, a health pitch of 71B to do battle with the malic acid in the fruit, and about 4lbs fresh picked, frozen, thawed and crushed berries added to secondary. No boil method with staggered nutrient addition, and back sweetened to taste.
SG	Weight(Lbs)	Vol (Gallons)	Vol (cups)Honey	1.417	7.0	0.60	9.53Cider	1.045		4.00	64Total	1.093		4.60	73.53Staggered Nutrient Add Points Calculator				OG	1.093			Target SG	1.025			Add #1 	1.085	1.081	Addition between these points	Add #2	1.059			FG at the end of primary fermentation:				1.025	ABV at the end of primary fermentation:				9.1	%Volume of the must when racked to Secondary:				5.0	gallonsAmount of honey added along with the fruit:				0.0	poundsGravity at racking + honey:				1.025	Pounds of Fruit	Select Fruit(s)	Sugar %	Sugar Added	Gallons of Juice	SG of Juice4.0	Blackberry	4.9%	0.01	0.42	1.021Estimated Liquid Contribution of the Fruit:				0.4	gallonsGravity of the Liquid Contributed by the Fruit:				1.021	Estimated Volume of must after fruit addition				5.4	gallonsEstimated SG After Fruit Addition:				1.024	ABV immediately after must gets diluted by the fruit/juice:				8.4	%Target FG:				1.017	ABV you'll get at the Target FG:				9.3	%Final Volume				5.0	gallonsAmount of honey added to back-sweeten:				0.0	poundsGravity at packaging:				1.017
Any thoughts?

Edited by ewanzel, 01 August 2009 - 12:54 PM.

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#3 miccullen

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Posted 01 August 2009 - 04:45 PM

After some more thought, I'm thinking about a blackberry cyser...maybe 7lbs neutral honey, 4 gallons apple juice, a health pitch of 71B to do battle with the malic acid in the fruit, and about 4lbs fresh picked, frozen, thawed and crushed berries added to secondary. No boil method with staggered nutrient addition, and back sweetened to taste.

SG	Weight(Lbs)	Vol (Gallons)	Vol (cups)Honey	1.417	7.0	0.60	9.53Cider	1.045		4.00	64Total	1.093		4.60	73.53Staggered Nutrient Add Points Calculator				OG	1.093			Target SG	1.025			Add #1 	1.085	1.081	Addition between these points	Add #2	1.059			FG at the end of primary fermentation:				1.025	ABV at the end of primary fermentation:				9.1	%Volume of the must when racked to Secondary:				5.0	gallonsAmount of honey added along with the fruit:				0.0	poundsGravity at racking + honey:				1.025	Pounds of Fruit	Select Fruit(s)	Sugar %	Sugar Added	Gallons of Juice	SG of Juice4.0	Blackberry	4.9%	0.01	0.42	1.021Estimated Liquid Contribution of the Fruit:				0.4	gallonsGravity of the Liquid Contributed by the Fruit:				1.021	Estimated Volume of must after fruit addition				5.4	gallonsEstimated SG After Fruit Addition:				1.024	ABV immediately after must gets diluted by the fruit/juice:				8.4	%Target FG:				1.017	ABV you'll get at the Target FG:				9.3	%Final Volume				5.0	gallonsAmount of honey added to back-sweeten:				0.0	poundsGravity at packaging:				1.017
Any thoughts?

my only thoughts are Yum and double the Blackberry
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#4 Hightest

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Posted 02 August 2009 - 08:07 AM

... 7lbs neutral honey, 4 gallons apple juice...

SG	Weight(Lbs)	Vol (Gallons)	Vol (cups)Honey	1.417	7.0	0.60	9.53Cider	1.045		4.00	64Total	1.093		4.60	73.53FG at the end of primary fermentation:				1.025	ABV at the end of primary fermentation:				9.1	%Volume of the must when racked to Secondary:				5.0	gallons
Any thoughts?

Yes. If you start with 4.6 gallons of must, how does it become 5.0 gallons when racked to the secondary? I'm not sure what calculation program is being used, but it doesn't seem to follow the conservation of mass law... :shock: :shock:
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#5 EWW

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Posted 02 August 2009 - 02:20 PM

Yes. If you start with 4.6 gallons of must, how does it become 5.0 gallons when racked to the secondary? I'm not sure what calculation program is being used, but it doesn't seem to follow the conservation of mass law... :shock: :shock:

Thank you!!! THIS is why I ask these things - I put into an excel spread sheet that was posted on the other site and didn't think twice about the calcs. I'll up the juice accordingly. Hey hightest, while I have your attention - what do you think about the blackberry amount? I have read that they should be treated like raspberries which is why I left the amount low, would you encourage me to double the amount as suggested by Mic? *runs off to do the math the old fashion way :covreyes: *
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#6 Hightest

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Posted 02 August 2009 - 03:49 PM

Thank you!!! THIS is why I ask these things - I put into an excel spread sheet that was posted on the other site and didn't think twice about the calcs.

Of course if you used my Mead calculator it would not have resulted is such a glaring error... {shameless plug...} :shock:

...what do you think about the blackberry amount? I have read that they should be treated like raspberries which is why I left the amount low, would you encourage me to double the amount as suggested by Mic?

While I have not used fresh blackberries in a mead, I have read about them and found these interesting attributes to consider: 1) They are high in tannin content and would therefore have a naturally astringent taste (a factor I am somewhat sensitive to) 2) They are also a natural source of salisylate a substance found in aspirin, which might be important to those sensitive to aspirin. 3) The % of blackberry's total acid that is malic acid is twice that of raspberries (Rasp - 20%, Black - 40%) As to how much one might use, I suppose that really depends on one's personal taste... Time to experiment :shock:
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#7 EWW

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Posted 02 August 2009 - 04:18 PM

Of course if you used my Mead calculator it would not have resulted is such a glaring error... {shameless plug...} ;)While I have not used fresh blackberries in a mead, I have read about them and found these interesting attributes to consider: 1) They are high in tannin content and would therefore have a naturally astringent taste (a factor I am somewhat sensitive to) 2) They are also a natural source of salisylate a substance found in aspirin, which might be important to those sensitive to aspirin. 3) The % of blackberry's total acid that is malic acid is twice that of raspberries (Rasp - 20%, Black - 40%) As to how much one might use, I suppose that really depends on one's personal taste... Time to experiment :shock:

I forgot about your calculator :shock: I haven't used fruit that much - typically just make traditional meads and meths and can do the calcs in the brewing software I have. I Knew that blackberries were high in malic acid, but did not realize they were that high in it. I'll have to think about adding some sweet cherries (we grow a lot of them here in WA state) to this mead to increase the fruit content.
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#8 EWW

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Posted 05 August 2009 - 07:49 PM

I sent an email off to Door Peninsula Winery re: their Blackberry ferment‏ion process - they have some award winning blackberry wines and here is the response I got:

Yah, you are right, I can't comment on too much on our process. But Blackberry tannin levels come from all the seeds and "parts" located on the outside of the fruit. Best way to reduce tannin load in wine is to press early and softly. I haven't had a problem with malic acid, it is a mild acid compared to tartaric that is in grapes. You may have fruit that is not totally ripe, if it is too sour/bitter/under developed. ML will diminish fruitiness but increase complexity, I don't recommend ML for fruit wines for a couple of reasons. First, loss of fruitiness. Second, you can get yourself into a jam here by running ML, because IF there is Residual Sugar after fermentation, most likely it will become converted to Acetic Acid aka vinegar during ML. Also, if you don't eliminate all your malic and sugar and take this wine into aging, for a few years, you could quickly spoil the wine, or the ML bacteria will wake up when conditions are positive, and have Malic and sugar to feed on. My advise is this: 1) Forget the 71B-1122 yeast, and get a yeast that will really project that style of wine you want to make. To me blackberry ferments like a Syrah or Merlot or Old Vine Zin, fast-stinky-needs lots of nutrient. Emphasize the fruitiness. 2) Press when you think the tannins are becoming too high. 3) Forget the ML, add 50-60 ppm SO2 after fermentation (especially if you have RS) to stop any ML fermentation, also keep it cool. 4) Keep SO2 up during aging, and give a gas blanket over the aging wine to prevent oxidation/surface film yeast. P.

Gives me some things to think about for sure
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