44 replies to this topic

[stangbat]

Do you guys really see it as that much more effort than a HERMS? To me, it seems like it's on the same level.

For my setup, yes. Since I was going with an automated electric HLT, adding the HERMS simply meant drilling two more holes in the HLT and putting a coil of copper inside, and using one additional hose (from the MT to the HERMS input). I needed a couple compression fittings and QDs for my hoses, but that was it. I was already going to use a pump so I had it accounted for. And my MT was already a cooler so it was basically taken care of.In my case, stirring the MT would have meant another motor and its respective wiring and switching. Not a biggie, but it would be more to stuff in the control panel. Plus I would have had to find a suitable motor and figure out how to mount it and what to use to as a stir bar as well as how to mount it to the motor. And then for the heating element(s)...that definitely gets a bit more involved. Another SSR and the respective wiring, control and switching, mounting, etc.If my general setup was more simple, putting a stir motor on the MT may have not been too much to consider. But since I was biting off a big project to begin with, stirring and direct heating of the mash would be way down on the "to do" list. The main goals I had was to automate strike and sparge water heating, minimize lifting, and increase my batch size with minimal effort.But as I pointed out, I'm just looking at this from my point of view and my setup. YMMV.

[No Party JKor]

I love gadgets just as much as the next guy and I have often built gadgets for the sake of building gadgets or the science/experience of doing so. However, for my homebrewing, I've kind of gotten to the point with my brew rig that I often ask the question WHY do I want to consider an improvement and what benefit should I expect in my beer or in the process.With that, I look at a stirred mash (and yes I have considered building it) and think that the only thing I hope to accomplish is a greater efficiency. I use a cooler that is preheated, so while there may be a very small temperature gradient across the bed, I think it is pretty negligible. (This is my estimation. That would be an interesting thing to experiment with and measure.) If someone was using a Sanke or other minimally insulated container, then yea, temp might be a reason to stir, but recirc could also help in that case.So, in my mind efficiency is the only really compelling reason to stir that I can think of and on the homebrew scale it just doesnt seem worth it. Just my $1/50 FWIW

I get really good efficiency already (80-90%) and I'm just using a cooler right now, no recirc. I'm either going back to HERMS or doing something new, like CSMLT. The other aspect of the CSMLT that I like is that you can direct heat. Two low density elements in the mash tun will bring the temp up super fast. Knowing for certain that the entire mash is at the same temperature just gives me warm and fuzzy feelings inside.

[djinkc]

The more I think about it continuous stirring might actually lose some heat unless you have a means to apply heat. I think most commercial stirred mashes are jacketed

[No Party JKor]

The more I think about it continuous stirring might actually lose some heat unless you have a means to apply heat. I think most commercial stirred mashes are jacketed

You're correct. I would be applying heat, just like a recirc system, except I'd have the elements in the mash tun. The MLT will also be insulated, so it probably won't require much heating, except during steps.

[chefmiller]

BTW, they do make ice cream paddle stirrers for 15, 20, 25, etc... size batches. I'll look into the cost of the parts if you would like, JK.

[No Party JKor]

BTW, they do make ice cream paddle stirrers for 15, 20, 25, etc... size batches. I'll look into the cost of the parts if you would like, JK.

Yeah, I'd be curious to know how much they cost.

[MolBasser]

Stirred mashes will always be more temperature consistent than wort recirculated mashes. Plus you would avoid many stuck lauter issues because you are not constantly compacting the mash during the saccharification period.*shameless useless celebrity drop*Randy Mosher uses a stirred mash system*shamless useless drop*I honestly think it is the best way to evenly heat and mix your mash.I'd say that there is a reason that the big boys use a stirred mash, but most of that is so they have a pumpable mash to get to the lauter, but it certainly works well for them.I would think a direct fired stirred mash tun would be easier and cheaper to build than a HERMS unit, but I haven't priced it out.BrewBasser

[Stout_fan]

Hey, That wouldn't be Old Fart's new HSA test rig would it?

[No Party JKor]

I think my biggest concern is lautering with the paddle in the mash, I'm worried about getting dead spots underneath the paddle blades. Of course, I can remove the paddle, but I want this to be as automated as possible. Maybe not a huge deal, but a concern.

[stellarbrew]

I think my biggest concern is lautering with the paddle in the mash, I'm worried about getting dead spots underneath the paddle blades. Of course, I can remove the paddle, but I want this to be as automated as possible. Maybe not a huge deal, but a concern.

What you need is variable pitch props, so you can feather them during the lauter. A pneumatically actuated yoke, and an I/P for modulated control, and you will be in business.

[No Party JKor]

What you need is variable pitch props, so you can feather them during the lauter. A pneumatically actuated yoke, and an I/P for modulated control, and you will be in business.

:cheers:BRILLIANT!!!

[No Party JKor]

Or a separate mash and lauter tun.

[djinkc]

If you're determined to try this have you considered a rake rather than paddles? I know I've seen that in a few breweries.

[No Party JKor]

Never really thought about a rake. Doesn't seem like it would be effective at keeping the bed uniform. Probably works great for doughing-in, though. Maybe designed properly it would be similarly effective.

[No Party JKor]

How about a mixed mash with steam injection? I'm reading through a thread over on the HBT where someone was doing this (but with hand mixing during the injections). I like the simplicity of injecting steam right through the lauter manifold.

[Deerslyr]

How about a mixed mash with steam injection? I'm reading through a thread over on the HBT where someone was doing this (but with hand mixing during the injections). I like the simplicity of injecting steam right through the lauter manifold.

Dang! Why didn't I think of that? I have a buddy that uses steam on occassion and frankly it's a PITA (but very efficient). He has copper tubing coming out of the top of his pressure cooker, but he has to pick it up and hold it over the mash tun, dipping the copper into the tun... I he has been reworking his system, and I don't think it would take much to modify it so that it can continue to sit on the burner and inject directly from the bottom via the copper manifold.

[chefmiller]

Ok, so after looking around at the large capacity paddles for large ice cream machines, they are all actually pretty small. The machine only uses the paddle for a small amount at a time, and then the finished soft serve goes to a holding tank or is dispensed immediately. The only way to go larger with the ice cream paddles is to go beyond commercial and into industrial size machines like the ones breyers and ben and jerry's use, which are custom made only.But, have you thought about commercial size paddles for regular mixers? They are readily available at supply houses everywhere, and if you got one or two used, they would be pretty inexpensive too.

[No Party JKor]

So right now I'm pretty much sold on a steam injection, continuously mixed setup. I have the big pieces already, the motor, the pressure cooker and the temp controller. Now, I just need some odds and ends. Tubing, fittings, etc. most of which I probably have laying around somewhere. I do need a solenoid for the steam line, and, of course, the paddle. I think I'm going with this design:httpss://www.tool-net.co.uk/data/tools/mipabel3bl.jpg

Edited by JKoravos, 24 July 2009 - 01:26 PM.

[stellarbrew]

So right now I'm pretty much sold on a steam injection, continuously mixed setup. I have the big pieces already, the motor, the pressure cooker and the temp controller. Now, I just need some odds and ends. Tubing, fittings, etc. most of which I probably have laying around somewhere. I do need a solenoid for the steam line, and, of course, the paddle. I think I'm going with this design:httpss://www.tool-net.co.uk/data/tools/mipabel3bl.jpg

What RPMs are you planning on turning?

[No Party JKor]

What RPMs are you planning on turning?

30ish.At least that's what other people are using. I'll probably dial it in after everything is together. Whatever looks good, most likely.