49 replies to this topic

[Brauer]

...so are you suggesting that I do my dough in with 5 gallons of water? Then use 3 gallons for batch sparge?

Yes, approximately (on my system it would be 4.75 gallons mash liquor and 3.25 for the sparge, for 10#, but that's just quibbling.). Adjusted for grain quantity and boil-off, those volumes would be close to optimal and could be expected to give better results than the BS suggestion. Not only does minimizing the sparge volume have the potential to produce superior wort, in this case it should improve efficiency.

[Deerslyr]

exactly!

Preach it!!

Can I get an "AMEN!!!" brothers?!

[Mya]

Can I get an "AMEN!!!" brothers?!

Amen!

[zymot]

Not only does minimizing the sparge volume have the potential to produce superior wort, in this case it should improve efficiency.

I be interested to hear more details or an explain an explanation of this statement.

[MakeMeHoppy]

I be interested to hear more details or an explain an explanation of this statement.

I'm interested as wellI believe that a somewhat lower efficiency wort say 70% may be better than an oversparged 90% efficiency wort, but I'm not sure that is what he meant by that statement.taken to the extreme you could continue to sparge your mash until the runnings are completely water clear and then boil down to get your volume. I expect effeciency would be max'ed out, but I don't think that would be a quality beer.

Edited by MakeMeHoppy, 12 July 2012 - 11:26 AM.

[Brauer]

I be interested to hear more details or an explain an explanation of this statement.

The immediate efficiency benefit would come from equal sparge volumes, though the benefit from that would be small. The less obvious potential efficiency benefit can come from a thinner mash, which often improves starch gelatinization and subsequent efficiency, particularly with less than optimal crush.I tried to throw a lot of qualifiers into the flavor benefit, since it isn't going to have the same benefit for every brewer. However, you minimize the risk of pH drift, if your water is off, by diluting out the buffering capacity less. Additionally, German brewers have shifted to decreased sparge volumes because the more sparge water you use, the more tannins you extract, even if your pH is good. I've heard it speculated that the big difference between the maltiness of no-sparged and sparged beers (if there is one) is that no-sparged beers simply have less tannin.

Edited by Brauer, 12 July 2012 - 06:56 PM.

[klickcue]

A good place to start is Kai's page of experiments.Mash ThicknessBatch Sparging

[Brauer]

Good point, Kickcue. Kai's site has data from his experiments, which test a lot of the variables that we throw around, like equal runnings, crush, mash temperature and pH, as well as breaking down the math that explains why some of it works the way it does. His Batch Sparge Simulator spreadsheet is a great tool for showing how volume variables affect the projected efficiency of a mash or taking the guess work out of a no-sparge or parti-gyle mash.There's other great information to find there, too. Most of the modern water calculators are based on his work to redefine the effect of SRM on mash pH. Thanks to his ability to read technical German, he's read a lot of the German brewing texts and has access to information that can be difficult to find in English, so he's a good source of traditional and modern German brewing techniques and research.

[thool]

I don't do any calculations or measuring....Dough in with appropriate water temperature and volume to get you to where the mash loosens up and you are at the temp you want.Run all that off. see where I am volume wise in the kettle.If I need 3 more gallons I take my one gallon pitcher and add three loads of hot to the mash tun, then run it out....bam, desired volume.As mentioned above after you do the initial runoff there is no more grain absorption.Works great for me.

This is exactly what I do. Just have a method to measure the first batch's volume in the boil pot, and make batch #2 the amount that gets you to target..

[MtnBrewer]

Couldn't we come up with a recipe that actually fits into a BJCP category? Either that, or just do a recipe and to hell with BJCP standards and just have someone judge it completely subjectively.

Theoretically we could.