15 replies to this topic

[CaptRon]

So how do you guys do your mash out? I've read something about adding boiling water to the mash, but I think there is risk of tannin extraction with this high of temp?? So how do you do it? Currently I just start sparging with about ~170 water when the mash is done. But if I can benefit from doing a mashout I'd like to know how to properly do it.TIA!

[MtnBrewer]

I don't really do a proper mash out anymore. If I'm batch sparging, I'll usually do a pseudo-mash out. The purpose of this is to 1) add more water to the mash and 2) heat it up some to lower the viscosity. In this case I add boiling water to the mash. This doesn't cause problems with tannins because the mash never gets above about 165°F. For fly sparging, I just use hotter-than-normal sparge water (but not boiling). Again, no worries about tannins because the grain bed stays below 170°F.

[djinkc]

When I batch sparged it was pretty much the same as Mtn does it. Now I fly and recirculate once my EHLT has recovered (have to half refill it) to the proper temperature for the mash, usually 20 minutes or so - EHLT temp is +9df from what my intended mash temp is. I've measured enough times that I know that's what I need for pump/hose temp loss. When I'm done with the mash I just bump the temp on the ranco controlling the EHLT (that has a HERMS coil in it) to a little over 170df. Then switch to a fly sparge with the lid off of the MT and don't worry about the temp since the mash will be around 163 or so at that point. A few brews ago I forgot to switch power off the EHLT and move it to the BK. I ended up sparging with ~ 200df water at the end of the sparge. I checked runnings and the pH was OK at that point, didn't tasted any astringency going into the kettle. I also did not get any better efficiency with water that hot. I think anything over 160df for the mash itself will get diminishing returns.I do it because with my system the recirculation absolutely helps with efficiency, lowers the viscosity of the runnings and it eliminates a vorlauf since the recirculation has it running almost crystal clear.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

I don't really do a proper mash out anymore. If I'm batch sparging, I'll usually do a pseudo-mash out. The purpose of this is to 1) add more water to the mash and 2) heat it up some to lower the viscosity. In this case I add boiling water to the mash. This doesn't cause problems with tannins because the mash never gets above about 165°F. For fly sparging, I just use hotter-than-normal sparge water (but not boiling). Again, no worries about tannins because the grain bed stays below 170°F.

I think the important thing to note that a lot of people miss is that even though some of the grains will for a short period of time be over 170F they very quickly cool down as the whole mash equalizes to some lower temperature. This very brief period of high temperature shouldn't be enough for significant tannin extraction (AFAIK).

[CaptRon]

When I batch sparged it was pretty much the same as Mtn does it. Now I fly and recirculate once my EHLT has recovered (have to half refill it) to the proper temperature for the mash, usually 20 minutes or so - EHLT temp is +9df from what my intended mash temp is. I've measured enough times that I know that's what I need for pump/hose temp loss. When I'm done with the mash I just bump the temp on the ranco controlling the EHLT (that has a HERMS coil in it) to a little over 170df. Then switch to a fly sparge with the lid off of the MT and don't worry about the temp since the mash will be around 163 or so at that point. A few brews ago I forgot to switch power off the EHLT and move it to the BK. I ended up sparging with ~ 200df water at the end of the sparge. I checked runnings and the pH was OK at that point, didn't tasted any astringency going into the kettle. I also did not get any better efficiency with water that hot. I think anything over 160df for the mash itself will get diminishing returns.I do it because with my system the recirculation absolutely helps with efficiency, lowers the viscosity of the runnings and it eliminates a vorlauf since the recirculation has it running almost crystal clear.

I wish my system was HERMS, and controlled like that. Mine is all manual labor.

[djinkc]

I wish my system was HERMS, and controlled like that. Mine is all manual labor.

Well, it can be done a lot of ways. I got the pump because I always brew 10 gallons. When I was batch sparging I was risking HSA, and making a mess filling whatever was around to drain from the MT and fill the BK by hand (guess that's similar to manually ). It was just a natural progression to the herms since I had the copper around and like to mess with that stuff.

[MtnBrewer]

I think the important thing to note that a lot of people miss is that even though some of the grains will for a short period of time be over 170F they very quickly cool down as the whole mash equalizes to some lower temperature. This very brief period of high temperature shouldn't be enough for significant tannin extraction (AFAIK).

Especially since the pH should be pretty low at that point in the process. Well below 6.0 anyway.

[BarelyBrews]

I bring my Sparge water to around 185 degrees( usually about 3 gallons) , and usually never hit over 170 degrees most of the time my sparge water is 162 to 166 degrees which seems to work for me. I have experimented with adding One Gallon of boiling water at the end of the mash to heat it up some , i don't recall having results that stood out for me .

[3rd party JKor]

Mashout seems to be a dying practice among homebrewers. I would do it if my system was set up to do it easily. But it's not.

[Slainte]

Direct heat and recirculating wort with my March pump.

[Kansan]

I like to bring the mash bed up to 167 and hold for 10-15 min. I have a RIMS set up with heat exchanger element, and a direct fire to the mash tun as well. So going from scarification to Mash-out on a 10 gallon batch doesn't take that long. The reason I like to hold mash out for at least 10-15 min is I like to make sure that the bed, that has been recirculating for the whole mash already, is thoroughly at temp to stop most enzymatic activity, and to make sure the mash liquid is the least viscous as possible so that I can get the most sugars to separate more freely from the bed as I fly sparge with 180 degree water.

[zymot]

So how do you guys do your mash out? I've read something about adding boiling water to the mash, but I think there is risk of tannin extraction with this high of temp?? So how do you do it? Currently I just start sparging with about ~170 water when the mash is done. But if I can benefit from doing a mashout I'd like to know how to properly do it.TIA!

If you cannot directly heat your mashtun, you have one - maybe two choices.If you add enough boiling water to your mash, it will reach a mash temp of 170°.How much water is enough? Using the formula found in Palmers book, here is a simple example using nominal values.Initial infusion/strike10 lbs of grain12.5 qts of water @ 162°Results in 150° mashAdd 7 qts of boiling waterRaises mash from 150° to 170°(You could add more than 7 qts of water at a lower temp and get to 170°, but boiling is easy to measure)Hold for 15-30 minutes. Results in the denature of enzymes and "fixes" your wort.An alternative is to raise your mash with a decoction step. This is where you increase the temp of the mash by adding boiled grains from your mash. You pull out 1/3 to 1/2 of the grains (note: not wort!) from your mash and boil them. Return the grains to your mash and raise the mash to mashout temps.You will not extract tannins or other nasties by boiling the grains. Mr Wizard at BYO says because the decoction is so thick, tannins do not get extracted.zymot

[siouxbrewer]

Direct heat and recirculating wort with my March pump.

This

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

Mashout seems to be a dying practice among homebrewers. I would do it if my system was set up to do it easily. But it's not.

Depending on how big my beer is I usually have some water I need to add before I drain my tun for the first time so this is my quasi-mashout.

[CoastieSteve]

I don't mash out (batch sparge here) and really like the beer the way it turns out.

[davelew]

So how do you guys do your mash out? I've read something about adding boiling water to the mash, but I think there is risk of tannin extraction with this high of temp?? So how do you do it? Currently I just start sparging with about ~170 water when the mash is done. But if I can benefit from doing a mashout I'd like to know how to properly do it.TIA!

[sarcasm]The tannins from boiling water additions in a mashout are almost as bad as the tannins from boiling the grains in a decoction.[/sarcasm]Serisouly, you don't need to worry about extracting tannins from adding boiling water to the mash. Tannins aren't really extracted even when you boil grains for a short time for a decoction. You need to boil grains at a rolling boil for almost an hour before you can start to taste the tannins.