21 replies to this topic

[weave]

I finished my brew day a couple hours ago. Made a smallish cream ale. It is a recipe that is in my regular warm weather rotation.It is a simple recipe. 4 lbs pale malt, 2 lbs flaked rice, 1 lb malted red wheat. Hopped with Liberty. Mash target is 150F. I've made this recipe a number of times and it is always +/- a couple points of 1.042 post boil. Today, post boil OG was 1.036. 5.25 gal wort collected, my usual amount.I nearly always buy plain Briess 2 row pale malt for my base grain. This Spring, I decided to try Thomas Fawcett Halcyon pale malt. This was my first brew day using Halcyon.Anyone else find Halcyon to give lower extract numbers than Briess? This really suprised me.Before anyone asks, my crush appeared as it normally does. And I hit my mash temp. Thermometer is in cal (checked with boiling H2O). I use a refracto for gravity readings and it is reading proper zero. Double checked with hydro and it agreed (I was really shocked that it was so low so I verified everything). I should have stopped wort collection early to get my gravity target but it is too late for that now.Experiences anyone ?

[dondewey]

I'm sure there is some difference between base grains, but this is almost 15%. I think something else has to be the culprit.

[djinkc]

I think most British malts have a bit more potential extract than American. I would guess a measuring error probably occured. I have this happen every so often. I just assume that I threw in more grain than I intended. My system is pretty well dialed in.

[Recklessdeck]

Are you sure you hit all your volumes? (only other variable I can think of)

[weave]

I am pretty sure I hit my volumes. Fermenter is at the 5.25 gal mark. I weigh my grains out so unless the scale is off cal that should be OK.I brewed again today. Same base grains. This time I made an English Bitter. I compensated for yesterday's shortfall and added an extra pound of base malt to make sure I don't end up 6 points low again. And I hit my gravity. Exactly. But I had to add that extra 30 pts of mat'l to do it (1lb @ 30 pts/lb/gal).That is damn repeatable to me. I am doubtful that I mis-measured by the same amount on consecutive days. Unless my scale is off I guess.Noone has any specific experience with Halycon?Any off-the-wall ideas? I am stumped unless the Halcyon is lower yeilding.

[MtnBrewer]

Any off-the-wall ideas? I am stumped unless the Halcyon is lower yeilding.

Did you try to find out what the yield actually was?I've never had a problem with British malts yielding lower than I expected. I've always gotten 37-38 ppppg from them. Not Halcyon, granted, but still I wouldn't think yield would vary more than a point or two.

[djinkc]

......Noone has any specific experience with Halycon?........

I'm about 80% of the way through a bag of it - first time I have used it. I'm hitting low 80's for efficiency with it, about the same as Golden Promise and Maris Otter at my place. I'm usually around 80% with Am 2-row.That doesn't make sense for you though. Any chance water chemistry has changed?

Edited by dj in kc, 01 July 2009 - 12:46 PM.

[weave]

That doesn't make sense for you though. Any chance water chemistry has changed?

I don't know.I am tempted to hit LHBS before next brew day to pick up enough Briess to do a side-by-side comparo.

[weave]

Did you try to find out what the yield actually was?

I haven't tried to find actual yield. Are you suggesting I contact mfg or do a calc?

[MtnBrewer]

I haven't tried to find actual yield. Are you suggesting I contact mfg or do a calc?

Contact Fawcett is what I was thinking. I doubt you have the equipment to measure it yourself. Some maltsters will have the data online. You're gonna need the lot # though. I assume you still have the bag? If not, then a big Emily Litella "nevermind".

[djinkc]

Contact Fawcett is what I was thinking. I doubt you have the equipment to measure it yourself. Some maltsters will have the data online. You're gonna need the lot # though. I assume you still have the bag? If not, then a big Emily Litella "nevermind".

That's still not going to explain it. I can't imagine a lot being that far off - I would think most of those maltsters put out a fairly consistent product. But why not check.......

[Slainte]

Get a malt analysis and find out for sure.

[stellarbrew]

It shouldn't be that hard to conduct your own Congress mash.

[davelew]

The only off-the-wall idea I can come up with is that this spring has been wetter than normal in the Northeast, so maybe the Halcyon has absorbed some water. That would mean when you weigh the grain, you end up with a higher percentage water and a lower percentage sugar per pound.I still don't think that would change things 15%, though.

[djinkc]

Well, I joined the club today. Halcyon and Canadian Pale malt basically 50/50 with a couple pounds of specialty grain. Expected around 53 points and got 44. I've brewed out of the same bags recently and hit my numbers. I have no clue. Measured grains yesterday sober as a judge....... Hit my mash temp at 151df. Nothing out of the ordinary brewing. I knew it was screwed preboil with a refractometer check but just ran with it anyway. Weird

[weave]

Well, I joined the club today. Halcyon and Canadian Pale malt basically 50/50 with a couple pounds of specialty grain. Expected around 53 points and got 44. I've brewed out of the same bags recently and hit my numbers. I have no clue. Measured grains yesterday sober as a judge....... Hit my mash temp at 151df. Nothing out of the ordinary brewing. I knew it was screwed preboil with a refractometer check but just ran with it anyway. Weird

Whew. Glad I am not alone now.I am still stumped.

[djinkc]

Whew. Glad I am not alone now.I am still stumped.

Well, I undershot my gravity again today. I think the culprit is relative humidity. I brew in our basement and even with a dehumidfier running the wood doors on my fermentation chamber are sticking. It was obvious today that my boiloff has decreased. Efficiency isn't the problem - I've gotten lazy over the winter/early spring watching my boiloff and ended up with too much wort. I'll adjust next brew and see if that takes care of it.

[Salsgebom]

I don't have an answer for you, but really really doubt its the maltsters fault. A respected maltster selling insufficiently malted barley is hard to believe. It's like Miller accidentally selling 1.020 FG miller lite.

[ChefLamont]

Understanding that I am just throwing out ideas here and that I havent used halcyon yet, I was wondering if there could be a few points hiding in the crush. What is the size of the grain relative to others. If it is smaller, you might be getting slightly less of a crush which could skew the numbers down a bit. Again just a guess.

[Stout_fan]

I was in this spot....... once.I do a preboil refracto and sometimes turn my batch sparge into a third fly sparge.Then I boil