64 replies to this topic

[Big Nake]

I thought there was another thread about meters but I couldn't find it. After a conversation with Chils, I think I'm going to get a pH meter. I would like one that is as simple to use and own as possible. I had heard about solutions and constant calibration, etc. and I wonder if you guys know of new models that have come out that are making pH measurement easier. Inexpensive is great but I'd pay a little more for "easy to use and own". Thoughts?

[Dave McG]

I have a Hanna Checker, and it's garbage. On HBT, there's a few that keep popping up in conversations. Milwaukee 102 is one, I believe.

[positiveContact]

every time i've looked into pH meters I've concluded that using colorphast strips is the better option for me in terms of ease of use and cost. just my 2 cents.

[Big Nake]

every time i've looked into pH meters I've concluded that using colorphast strips is the better option for me in terms of ease of use and cost. just my 2 cents.

But I also keep hearing that they're not accurate. I equate this problem to the one I had with mash temp. I can't expect to get good results from a crappy thermometer so I got a Thermapen. I can't expect good results from strips so maybe a pH meter is better in the long run. Plus I thought I saw a Milwaukee model for something like $26 a few months ago. Plus, I heard they're getting easier to use.

[beach]

I have a Hanna Checker, and it's garbage.

^This, constant re-ca;ibration, bought a new probe, same thing. I went to colorphast strips and the meter is gathering dust. YMMVBeach

[positiveContact]

But I also keep hearing that they're not accurate. I equate this problem to the one I had with mash temp. I can't expect to get good results from a crappy thermometer so I got a Thermapen. I can't expect good results from strips so maybe a pH meter is better in the long run. Plus I thought I saw a Milwaukee model for something like $26 a few months ago. Plus, I heard they're getting easier to use.

I find the colorphast strips to be accurate enough. think of all the people who don't even adjust their water and make good beer. even a lot of pros don't seem to adjust their water (which surprises me!). you just have to land in a range, not an exact value.

[Big Nake]

Yes but some pros might make styles of beer that they know work well with their water so they know they don't have to futz with it. For me, it's about reducing variables and at least knowing what's going on with various parts of my brewing. My water can be tricky to use with certain styles (dynamite for other styles) and the more weapons the better. The strips have been described as being consistently off... which would be fine if you always knew how badly they were off... and the water guys have mentioned that due to atmospheric conditions, humidity, moisture, etc., the strips can be completely useless.

[Howie]

But I also keep hearing that they're not accurate.

JZ touts them as being extremely accurate, even compared to a bench meter.Not that he's an expert on pH, but I think that's good enough for me. I used to have a cheapo pH meter, and it was a hassle. Plus it's expensive to keep all the calibrating solutions, keep it in solution, calibrate it constantly, etc.

[Big Nake]

JZ touts them as being extremely accurate, even compared to a bench meter.Not that he's an expert on pH, but I think that's good enough for me. I used to have a cheapo pH meter, and it was a hassle. Plus it's expensive to keep all the calibrating solutions, keep it in solution, calibrate it constantly, etc.

That's interesting. Chils and I were talking and he said that waterheads like AJ DeLange and Martin the Bru'N'Water man say that you may as well toss them in the trash. I don't know... on the one hand, I don't bother taking OG and FG readings anymore and I have always steered clear of making brewing harder in an effort to keep it fun. But it's not fun to make subpar beer and I keep thinking that with a little more attention to detail (especially with better tools), I'd avoid the occasional funky batch or at least reduce the chances. I thought some of these new meters got away from the solutions because the technology is changing & improving.

[positiveContact]

That's interesting. Chils and I were talking and he said that waterheads like AJ DeLange and Martin the Bru'N'Water man say that you may as well toss them in the trash.

which specific strips are they talking about? I had some before the colorphast ones that did indeed suck in a big way. completely useless!

[Big Nake]

which specific strips are they talking about? I had some before the colorphast ones that did indeed suck in a big way. completely useless!

I never heard this directly although I was emailing back and forth with AJ DeLange and he told me not to trust the Colorphast strips specifically. Chils mentioned ColorpHast strips by name as ones that Martin and AJ say to toss. I have used these for awhile now and I can't really say if they work just like I can't really say that the temperature on the bank sign down the street is correct. If I use one and the pH looks high and then I add a smidge of lactic acid and check again, it does indeed appear lower according to the color chart. But how do I know it's right? Mash temp makes a difference, someone said that the strips always show .3 too low (or too high, I forget) so you have to take that into consideration and I start to lose patience with it. I went with ColorpHast because I had heard they were better than the others... which I also bought (they were thin paper and orange)... they completely sucked.

[positiveContact]

I never heard this directly although I was emailing back and forth with AJ DeLange and he told me not to trust the Colorphast strips specifically. Chils mentioned ColorpHast strips by name as ones that Martin and AJ say to toss. I have used these for awhile now and I can't really say if they work just like I can't really say that the temperature on the bank sign down the street is correct. If I use one and the pH looks high and then I add a smidge of lactic acid and check again, it does indeed appear lower according to the color chart. But how do I know it's right? Mash temp makes a difference, someone said that the strips always show .3 too low (or too high, I forget) so you have to take that into consideration and I start to lose patience with it. I went with ColorpHast because I had heard they were better than the others... which I also bought (they were thin paper and orange)... they completely sucked.

I think they are generally 0.3 low so I always shoot for 5.1-5.2 to be safe. I can live with a constant offset like this. Just a sample point from me but I very, very rarely have to make a second adjustment after I take a pH reading. I use palmer's spreadsheet to calculate salt additions and as expected, it works very well unless I'm using very dark malts (roasted barley, black patent, etc.) which is a known weak spot of that spreadsheet. but the fact that the spreadsheet and the pH strips agree pretty much 100% of the time otherwise for me tells me that it's pretty likely that they work reasonably well.

[Murphy]

if you are talking accuracy then a meter will be more accurate than a test strip. what proof do I have of this, no lab I have ever worked in (university or industry) uses strips over a meter. now with a pH meter, and probe, you get what you pay for so if it's super cheap then expect it to be a piece of garbage.for homebrew purposes strips would work just fine but a good pH meter will always be better, but don't expect them to be cheap (ours here in the lab are around $1000-ish/meter without a probe)sorry, I'm sure this didn't help but I thought it may help clarify

[armagh]

https://home.comcast...AQ/pHProbes.pdfKen,Check this out.

[positiveContact]

if you are talking accuracy then a meter will be more accurate than a test strip. what proof do I have of this, no lab I have ever worked in (university or industry) uses strips over a meter. now with a pH meter, and probe, you get what you pay for so if it's super cheap then expect it to be a piece of garbage.for homebrew purposes strips would work just fine but a good pH meter will always be better, but don't expect them to be cheap (ours here in the lab are around $1000-ish/meter without a probe)sorry, I'm sure this didn't help but I thought it may help clarify

so the question would be how much cash do you have to spend to get a meter that's better than colorphast strips AND are colorphast strips accurate enough (if you account for a fixed offset) to make consistent beer.

[Murphy]

so the question would be how much cash do you have to spend to get a meter that's better than colorphast strips AND are colorphast strips accurate enough (if you account for a fixed offset) to make consistent beer.

you could probably get a good handheld one for $250-300by definition if the strips require an offset they are not accurate. they may be precise in that the offset is the same each time but they are not accurate if they require a correction factor.like I said I think strips would be okay and more affordable for homebrews, hell I don't even check the pH of my mashes but then again I'm not exactly the most thorough homebrewer

[positiveContact]

by definition if the strips require an offset they are not accurate. they may be precise in that the offset is the same each time but they are not accurate if they require a correction factor.

call the offset your calibration factor ;)if they are consistently off by a set amount and are precise that seems like they'd be plenty good enough for a homebrewer.

[cavman]

call the offset your calibration factor ;)if they are consistently off by a set amount and are precise that seems like they'd be plenty good enough for a homebrewer.

Yep, but I don't worry about it and never check ph.

[positiveContact]

Yep, but I don't worry about it and never check ph.

there is also this way to do it :lol:I think we all pick our battles. I should really be looking into building a ferm chamber of some kind...

[Big Nake]

you could probably get a good handheld one for $250-300

It sounds like you have some access to good pH meters. Would you consider a $112 Milwaukee model 102 a waste of money based on the above statement? I ask because $112 is a little more than I would like to spend and if it turned out to be a dog then I wouldn't bother.Side conversation: Let's say I'm taking the pH of my mash with a ColorpHast strip and it shows mildly high (which may be mildly low or higher than it shows based on this 'fudge-factor' we're talking about) and so I decide to add some lactic acid and ... in my haste... I make the pH too low. Let's say that I unknowingly lowered it to 4.8 or 4.9 (not sure how easy this would be with lactic acid but whatever)... what effect would that have on the mash? Is low pH just as bad as high pH? Probably should've started a new thread on that little number.