10 replies to this topic

[Fatman]

My new-ish lagering fridge is sitting idle. I'm ready to brew my second lager. I'm a huge fan of SlyFox's Pikeland Pils (GABF gold a few years back & cans - what more can you ask for). It's pretty bitter with a lovely flavor and aroma (not as bitter as Victory's Prima Pils. Seriously, PA is the Pilsner capital of the world - I'll take Pikeland, Prima, and Troegs' Sunshine Pils over any other three Pilsners in the world. It's all the German heritage around here - West Coast has their ales, but PA does lagers better). I'm not trying to clone, but I'd like to be in the same neighborhood. I was thinking about hop-bursting to get that great aroma, or will I overwhelm the beer - I'm not looking for an Imperial Pilsner.Here's the Pikeland stats off their website:Gold Medal GABF 2007, 2000; Bronze Medal, GABF 2003. A Northern German style Pilsner brewed with imported German Pils malt and hopped with German and Czech hops. Light in body, light straw in color and dry. 11.7 OG | 44 IBUs | 4.9% ABVHere's what I cobbled together:Details:Name: Possible HopBurst BoPilsBrewer: Your NameSize: 5.5 gallons USStyle: Bohemian PilsenerOG: 1.047, FG:1.009, Alc:4.9, IBU:43.7(Alc method: by Volume; IBU method: Tinseth)Yeast: WLP802 Czech Budejovice Lager YeastFermentables:Name amount units pppg lov %Belgian Pils 0.60 lb 1.035 1.8 6.1%Cara-Pils Dextrine 9.20 lb 1.035 1.8 93.9%Hops:Name amount units Alpha Min IBUSaaz 5.00 oz 5.1 15.0 41.7Saaz 0.50 oz 5.1 5.0 1.7Saaz 0.50 oz 5.1 1.0 0.4I picked WLP802 to get the attenuation needed to get from 1.047 to 1.009.Should I try the hopburst, or will I get bitter beer face? Or should I stick with a more conventional hop schedule until I get better at this lager thing? If anyone has any experience with Pikeland Pils, should I migrate back towards more of a German Pilsner and less of a BoPils (the base for this recipe is Jamil's BoPils)?

[orudis]

I think hopbursting will work. Assuming you reversed the carapils and pils amounts in your recipe, I question the need or any carapils in a Ngerman pils- you want it to be dry, and the cara pils is going to work against that. Good luck!

[Jimmy James]

I will stay tuned to hear how the WLP802 works out in this recipe for you. I used it recently in a BoPils. The hardest part for me was getting full attenuation, I actually had to warm up the beer and pitch some slurry of Kolsch yeast I had around to finish off the last few points of gravity. In the end I got down to 1.010 for a triple-decocted brew, so not bad, but I suspect I under-pitched and didn't have my temps down as I hadn't run a lager in a while. My advice: make a huge starter, have some way of knowing what the temp is inside your fridge. The external controller/thermostat is often reading a different temp. Assuming you'll have all that down I say go for it!! I think a BoPils can stand up to a hopburst if any light lager can.

[Fatman]

Whoops - I did reverse the Pilsner and Carapils. So no Carapils? Just Straight Pilsner malt then? - otherwise what sort of things do you add to a BoPils? Aromatic malt? Honey malt?I think I'll try the Hopburst. I do have a digital controller thingie for the lagering fridge, and a mostly built stirplate for a nice big starter.

[ncbeerbrewer]

Nothing but straight Pilsner malt according to BJCP. I am planning a Bo Pils in the next month and thats all I have planned as well. Here is the BJCP reference BJCP

[Slainte]

I think hopbursting will work. Assuming you reversed the carapils and pils amounts in your recipe, I question the need or any carapils in a Ngerman pils- you want it to be dry, and the cara pils is going to work against that. Good luck!

He's not brewing a North German pils. He's brewing a Bohemian Pils. Most Bohemian Pils recipes I've seen have carapils in them. They are NOT supposed to be dry like German Pilsners. More medium bodied, with final gravities in the range of 1.013 and 1.017.

[Big Nake]

He's not brewing a North German pils. He's brewing a Bohemian Pils.

Most Bohemian Pils recipes I've seen have carapils in them. They are NOT supposed to be dry like German Pilsners. More medium bodied, with final gravities in the range of 1.013 and 1.017.

Agreed. If you're making a BoPils (and 802 would make a nice one...), you could use Carapils or even some Munich or Vienna. Some of the Bopils recipes I have seen use pilsner malt along with 20-30% Vienna or Munich. I would also use Saaz hops, possibly used in conjunction with Styrian Goldings which are usually grown in the region. If you don't have the 802 or cannot find it, I HIGHLY recommend Wyeast 2278 Czech Lager (high-floccer, brighter beer) or White Labs 800 which may possibly be the same strain. Wyeast 2001 Urquell is also nice and I made 2 beautiful gold lagers with it earlier this year. Cheers.

Ps. I mentioned this is in another thread, but these beers are usually made with very soft water so you might consider that too. A beer with 40-50 IBU but made with softer water comes across a little smoother. My water is on the hard side so I have made these with as much as 75% distilled water added to filtered tap water. A beer like this made with hard water comes out "clunky". YMMV.

[Blizz]

I recently did a hopbursted BoPils. It was somewhat similar to Fatman's.6 GalOG - 1.052FG - 1.012IBU - 40SRM - 39.3lb - Weyerman Bohemian Pilsner Malt1lb - CarapilsCzech Saaz - 4.3oz - 20minCzech Saaz - 2.75 oz - 10minCzech Saaz - 1oz - Flameout/WhirlpoolWyeast 2124 Bohemian Lager yeast (slurry from a local brewpub)75% Distilled water25% Charcoal filtered tap waterI was very happy with how it turned out. The bitterness was there, with a hop flavor that balanced nicely with the malt. It think the Carapils works well to prevent it from being too dry, though I may cut back slightly next time as it may have had a little too much body.The is one of the few lagers that you want to drink fresh. Don't let it sit around too long. Once you've lagered it for 3-4 weeks, go ahead and enjoy it while the hop flavor is nice and fresh.

[Fatman]

Well, I probably ended up somewhere in between Bo and German Pils...9.8 lbs Belgian Pils5.0 oz. 5.1% Saaz Whole leaf @ 15 min0.5 oz. 5.1% Saaz Whole leaf @ 5 min0.5 oz. 5.1% Saaz Whole leaf @ 1 min6 gal wort @ 1.048 & 41 IBUWLP802 Czech Budejovice Lager yeastGravity @ start of lagering = 1.012It's been at 39 degrees for 2 weeks now. I'll probably let it go another 2 weeks, if I can wait that long.Not a lot of hop aroma at lagering transfer - should I be concerned?

[orudis]

He's not brewing a North German pils. He's brewing a Bohemian Pils. Most Bohemian Pils recipes I've seen have carapils in them. They are NOT supposed to be dry like German Pilsners. More medium bodied, with final gravities in the range of 1.013 and 1.017.

Sorry I got confused, I guess by the fact that the beer he was trying to aim for calls itself a NG pils. Anyhoo, hope it turns out great. I have a 100% pilsner/saaz pilz of some sort fermenting WLP833 right now. I think that is my favorite lager yeast. cheers

[Fatman]

Well, a bit of bitterness, and no hop flavor/aroma. So much for hop bursting. It's a good beer, but not what I was aiming for - tastes slightly fruity (esters? I'm not even sure what they taste like). I guess my lager brewing needs work too. It is pretty dry and very drinkable - at 5.0% it sneaks up on ya (I've had four tonight).