74 replies to this topic

[SchwanzBrewer]

Anyone have a nomograph for carbonating kegs? I've heard you use half the priming sugar as you would for a bottle, but I haven't found anything solid. I'd like to take a shot at this a few times to see if it works well for the beer. Cheers,Rich

[positiveContact]

Anyone have a nomograph for carbonating kegs? I've heard you use half the priming sugar as you would for a bottle, but I haven't found anything solid. I'd like to take a shot at this a few times to see if it works well for the beer. Cheers,Rich

is the idea that you use less b/c the headspace volume per beer volume is less? I would think it would only be a small tweak but I've never tried it. worst case if it's a little too carbed is you can bleed off some pressure to decarb it a bit.

Edited by StudsTerkel, 02 November 2011 - 06:51 AM.

[Deerslyr]

Studs is right... you can always bleed some off. Conversely, you can always add more carbonation if its not right. I just find that whatever priming you do in the keg, benefits the beer. You do get less of that bite from C0-2 that you typically get when force carbing if a good portion of your carbonation is from the priming sugar. I'm assuming time is on your side?

[positiveContact]

Studs is right... you can always bleed some off. Conversely, you can always add more carbonation if its not right. I just find that whatever priming you do in the keg, benefits the beer. You do get less of that bite from C0-2 that you typically get when force carbing if a good portion of your carbonation is from the priming sugar. I'm assuming time is on your side?

I've never noticed this bite except when trying to carbonate too fast.

[Deerslyr]

I've never noticed this bite except when trying to carbonate too fast.

hangs head in shame... is too impatient...

[SchwanzBrewer]

I read on HBT that they were using half the sugar, and they didn't really have an explanation. Time isn't an issue. I was just curious if anyone here was doing it and what process they used, or even if a nomograph existed for it. CJ, what does your brewery do? Cheers,Rich

[positiveContact]

I read on HBT that they were using half the sugar, and they didn't really have an explanation. Time isn't an issue. I was just curious if anyone here was doing it and what process they used, or even if a nomograph existed for it. CJ, what does your brewery do? Cheers,Rich

I know some breweries just seal up the primary towards the end of fermentation and then force carb a little bit just to finish it off. That's probably not an option for you but I think it's common practice for the pros.

[SchwanzBrewer]

I know some breweries just seal up the primary towards the end of fermentation and then force carb a little bit just to finish it off. That's probably not an option for you but I think it's common practice for the pros.

In another thread, CJ claimed that all the packaging was naturally carbonated at his brewery in the keg or in the bottle. He did say that they used krausening when it was convenient, but that they used sugar a lot of the time. (Krausening is when you put fresh wort from another brew of the same kind into the keg and use it for priming) Some other breweries package the beer a few points above terminal gravity so it finishes under pressure. I would like to just add some sugar, but I would like to know how much so I don't over carb. Also I don't necessarily have 5 gallons each time so knowing how much to put in according to volume would be nice. Cheers,Rich

[Humperdink]

In another thread, CJ claimed that all the packaging was naturally carbonated at his brewery in the keg or in the bottle. He did say that they used krausening when it was convenient, but that they used sugar a lot of the time. (Krausening is when you put fresh wort from another brew of the same kind into the keg and use it for priming) Some other breweries package the beer a few points above terminal gravity so it finishes under pressure. I would like to just add some sugar, but I would like to know how much so I don't over carb. Also I don't necessarily have 5 gallons each time so knowing how much to put in according to volume would be nice. Cheers,Rich

What is the benefit to naturally carbonating in a keg? Genuine question since in my understanding, force carbonating removes a lot of the downfalls of natural carbonation like yeast sediment and predictability in carbonation level. I can't really think of a benefit...

[SchwanzBrewer]

What is the benefit to naturally carbonating in a keg? Genuine question since in my understanding, force carbonating removes a lot of the downfalls of natural carbonation like yeast sediment and predictability in carbonation level. I can't really think of a benefit...

It depends on your POV. I would like to find out if there is a benefit in taste or head retention, anything. I have limited room to carbonate, and I am trying to brew 4-8 kegs worth a month right now. I can't carbonate that much and turn over the carboys for fermentation. So if I naturally carbonate I can set the kegs aside and use my chilling space for serving or bottling. Cheers,Rich

[Humperdink]

It depends on your POV. I would like to find out if there is a benefit in taste or head retention, anything. I have limited room to carbonate, and I am trying to brew 4-8 kegs worth a month right now. I can't carbonate that much and turn over the carboys for fermentation. So if I naturally carbonate I can set the kegs aside and use my chilling space for serving or bottling. Cheers,Rich

Gotcha! Space isn't really an issue for me so I was not seeing that perspective.

[toonces]

I would like to just add some sugar, but I would like to know how much so I don't over carb. Also I don't necessarily have 5 gallons each time so knowing how much to put in according to volume would be nice. Cheers,Rich

i've been thinking about this as well. and i'm torn between adding sugar and waiting or force carbing. and what the difference in time would be. i just haven't worked out a time value for it yet. natural conditioning would add, what, another two weeks to the process? now, you're up to a month to move product to sell. how long would force carbing add?

[SchwanzBrewer]

i've been thinking about this as well. and i'm torn between adding sugar and waiting or force carbing. and what the difference in time would be. i just haven't worked out a time value for it yet. natural conditioning would add, what, another two weeks to the process? now, you're up to a month to move product to sell. how long would force carbing add?

You only have the delay in the beginning though. Once you start the rotation you will continually have product ready to go. Basser says Pale is done in two weeks. I have to believe there is a time delay past that where the beer peaks as it ages a little. They do national distribution so the journey the beer takes gives it a little time to mature. You are all local, so you want the best product right away. Something tells me natural carbonating will give you that. I also believe it is much cheaper to do. I wish CJ saw this thread. I'll have to send him a PM and hope he chimes in. Cheers,Rich

[toonces]

You only have the delay in the beginning though. Once you start the rotation you will continually have product ready to go. Basser says Pale is done in two weeks. I have to believe there is a time delay past that where the beer peaks as it ages a little. They do national distribution so the journey the beer takes gives it a little time to mature. You are all local, so you want the best product right away. Something tells me natural carbonating will give you that. I also believe it is much cheaper to do. I wish CJ saw this thread. I'll have to send him a PM and hope he chimes in. Cheers,Rich

ummm, i'm not certain you understand what i'm trying to say. as part of the process, you put wort in a fermenter. let's say for two weeks, like basser says. then, you can either add sugar, keg and condition for another two weeks(and you'll need space and/or temperature controls for that) or you transfer to another vessel to force carb for a week(?), keg and then start shipping. unless you have at least half the number of force carbing vessels as you do fermenters(and spend a bit more capital), force carbing is now the bottleneck in the process.

[SchwanzBrewer]

ummm, i'm not certain you understand what i'm trying to say. as part of the process, you put wort in a fermenter. let's say for two weeks, like basser says. then, you can either add sugar, keg and condition for another two weeks(and you'll need space and/or temperature controls for that) or you transfer to another vessel to force carb for a week(?), keg and then start shipping. unless you have at least half the number of force carbing vessels as you do fermenters(and spend a bit more capital), force carbing is now the bottleneck in the process.

Two weeks to one week. But there is supposed to be a cost savings when you naturally carbonate. All you would need to naturally carbonate is a normal air conditioned room as opposed to a large supply of CO2 and enough room in your cooler to delineate between ready product and carbonating product. OR multiple expensive temperature controlled brite tanks.

[positiveContact]

Two weeks to one week. But there is supposed to be a cost savings when you naturally carbonate. All you would need to naturally carbonate is a normal air conditioned room as opposed to a large supply of CO2 and enough room in your cooler to delineate between ready product and carbonating product. OR multiple expensive temperature controlled brite tanks.

you can force carb at room temp - or at least start the process.

[Big Nake]

I've always heard 1/3rd of a cup to naturally carb a keg. I suppose it's the same as with bottles... if this amount is too soft or too lively, you can adjust but that number (1/3rd cup) is as solid as it gets, I believe because I have seen it a number of times. Good luck.

[SchwanzBrewer]

I've always heard 1/3rd of a cup to naturally carb a keg. I suppose it's the same as with bottles... if this amount is too soft or too lively, you can adjust but that number (1/3rd cup) is as solid as it gets, I believe because I have seen it a number of times. Good luck.

I thought it was 3/4 cup for 5 gallons for bottles. Other forums say 1/3 cup for kegs as well. From "How to Brew"

Boil 3/4 cup of corn sugar (4 oz by weight), or 2/3 cup of white sugar, or 1 and 1/4 cup dry malt extract in 2 cups of water and let it cool.

The graph below is for bottles. Typical CO2 volumes for styles British ales 1.5-2.0Porter, Stout 1.7-2.3Belgian ales 1.9-2.4American ales 2.2-2.7European lagers 2.2-2.7Belgian Lambic 2.4-2.8American wheat 2.7-3.3German wheat 3.3-4.5 Palmer does not mention kegs. On another forum they mention that because there is more head space (my guess is surface area is important) in a keg, you need less sugar. One reason why I ask is because I have some 1/12bbl (2.5gal) sanke kegs that I want to use from time to time and I want to try naturally carbonating in them as well. Cheers,Rich

[toonces]

you can force carb at room temp - or at least start the process.

i thought a gas is more soluble the colder it is.

[Humperdink]

i thought a gas is more soluble the colder it is.

It is, but yeast aren't gonna work well at cold temps. Well, quickly anyway.