34 replies to this topic

[Kellermeister]

Here's the recipe for Zum Uerige from the brewmaster, via Denny, if you are interested:

Dr. Frank Hebmuller, who is the brew master and executive brewer at Zum Uerige:

Mittelfruh, Perle, or Spalt are the preferred hops. Aroma hop addition is about 25% of the total hop amount. Add aroma hops no earlier than 20 min. before flameout.

I think this sounds right, 75% of the hops go in the bittering addition for a 60 minute minimum boil, 25% of the hops in the aroma addition, minimum 20 minute boil. If you taste altbier on tap in its hometown, you will not find a lot of hop flavor/aroma in it. The american tendancy is to add too much hops to everything, which I recommend avoiding when trying to clone a real dusseldorf alt. You are better off with the noble hops as well, if you want a copy of the original. Not to say the hopped up versions will taste bad. They will just be american versions.

[djinkc]

I think this sounds right, 75% of the hops go in the bittering addition for a 60 minute minimum boil, 25% of the hops in the aroma addition, minimum 20 minute boil. If you taste altbier on tap in its hometown, you will not find a lot of hop flavor/aroma in it. The american tendancy is to add too much hops to everything, which I recommend avoiding when trying to clone a real dusseldorf alt. You are better off with the noble hops as well, if you want a copy of the original. Not to say the hopped up versions will taste bad. They will just be american versions.

And to keep it interesting - American breweries swept the World Beer Cup in 2010 - Dusseldorf Alt category. IIRC, Germans were judging that category and were a bit surprised at what they chose.

[Kellermeister]

There are not enough German microbreweries and homebrewers. The commercial breweries usually make a few products and never change them. There is very little experimentation. Yes the beer is good but there is no experimentation. When I go back I am somewhat disappointed. For example, I believe that the marketing department has gotten ahold of the Diebels recipe. It is milder and has less bite than it used to. They have probably tried to copy z. Uerige and Fuchschen with a lighter beer that women like more than the more bitter beer that I remember. They probably just reduced the amount of roast malt. My favorite alt is an extreme alt which has far more specialty malt in it than any commercial alt. If you want good beer you have to make it yourself.

[Kellermeister]

I just checked the results, the Detroit Dwarf took silver... I am heading out there this weekend, maybe I can get to Detroit Brewing and give it a try.

[Kellermeister]

Found an interesting recipe , it might taste like Schumacher from the looks of it.

[Genesee Ted]

Found an interesting recipe , it might taste like Schumacher from the looks of it.

Two interesting things from this recipe. 1 I really dig the krausening technique. I have never seen that before and it is intriguing and seemingly an effort to conform to Rheinheitsgebot. 2 If it was a Rheinheitsgebot thing, why did the brewer use gelatin?

[Brauer]

Ruhrpott Alt is:60% munich30% pilsner4% caramunich3% melanoidin2% roast barley1% carafa30IBU Spalt 60 minutes

I'd be careful using roast barley in an Alt. I've made a few and the roasted barley had such a distinctive flavor that they ended up tasting like Irish Red Ales. They are interesting beers, and I kind of like them, but they didn't taste like Alts. I don't think German brewers would use roast barley, because it doesn't meet Reinheitsgebot.

[Kellermeister]

I have probably made 50 batches or more of alt with roast barley and find that the roast barley I am buying from NB fits in very well with the alt flavor. Back in the early 2000s I did a series of test brews with a base malt and each individual brown colored specialty malt that could possibly be a candidate for altbier, individually brewed. The results were that Caramunich, carafa, roast barley, melanoidin, Special B, Dark Munich and maybe small amounts of other crystal/caramel type malts could be used to approximate the flavor of alt. I wanted to intensify the color and flavor. After some further experiments, I stuck with the ratio: 4% caramunich3% melanoidin2% roast barley1% carafa However that was with carafa I or II, I now have carafa III and this ratio is too dark in color, and there is too much carafa flavor. I am hoping that reducing the roast barley to 1% will bring the color down to where you can see through the beer and balance the flavor. Barley is one of the ingredients permitted in the Reinheitsgebot, why would roast barley not meet it? Carafa is roast barley.

[MtnBrewer]

Barley is one of the ingredients permitted in the Reinheitsgebot, why would roast barley not meet it? Carafa is roast barley.

I think it's gotta be malted barley.

[denny]

I think it's gotta be malted barley.

Yep.

[Kellermeister]

Where does it say that? https://www3.sympati...heitsgebot.html

[Genesee Ted]

I cannot translate (or even read) that, but I looked on a few other websites about the law and they claim that barley for beer has to be malted. Roasted barley is not malted. Carafa however, is. I am no scholar. Just what the interwebz tells me.

[Brauer]

That original version, which was rewritten many times during the formation of the German state, actually includes "Gersten/Hopssen/un Wasser", or "barley/hops and water", but it has been largely interpreted to mean malt. This can be seen in the current version of the act, the Vorläufiges Biergesetz, which reads "nur aus Malz, Hopfen, Hefe und Wasser".

[Genesee Ted]

und, und, und....und Becks? ya! UND BECKS!!!

[Kellermeister]

I need a little help here