11 replies to this topic

[BigDaddyD]

I am brewing this recipe and have 2 more in storage for the next few weeks6lb WLME8oz flaked wheat8oz flaked oats3hbu hallertau 1/2oz boiling 60 min1 lb clover honeyI have at my disposal 6 oz of amarillo HopsI have three choices for yeastUS-05 cake from this same recipe ( no hop additions SG 1.054-1.010 over 10 day primary)NottinghamWB-06WindsorAre any of these yeasts gonna perform better in this recipe and what sort of hop addition will give me light hop aroma?Also I am trying to avoid the Blue Moon flavor, if anyone knows what I am talking about.

[MtnBrewer]

Are any of these yeasts gonna perform better in this recipe

This depends on what you consider "better". The only one that will give you weizen flavors is WB-06 but I don't know if that's what you're going for. The British yeasts will produce more esters and US-05 will be fairly clean for an ale.

and what sort of hop addition will give me light hop aroma?

Additions around 15-20 minutes will produce a little bit of aroma with also some "flavor" from oxidized hop oils. If you want more aroma and less flavor, move the addition closer to the end of the boil.

Also I am trying to avoid the Blue Moon flavor, if anyone knows what I am talking about.

It would be a lot more helpful if you could describe the flavors you do want to produce instead of the ones you don't. Jus' sayin'

[BigDaddyD]

It would be a lot more helpful if you could describe the flavors you do want to produce instead of the ones you don't. Jus' sayin'

My lack of description comes from my lack of experience, this is only my 5th brew and I have only recently begun drinking the others. They are good, I think I will go with the wb-06 and 2 hop additions one at 10 and one at 5 i think, maybe 1/2 oz at 10 and 1 oz at 5. I have been directed to mash the oats/wheat, which i did on the last recipe however at the direction of my LHBS i didn't use any malt during the mash, as "you will get enough conversion for that recipe without adding any 2/6 row" The first batch with 05 tastes pretty good at 10 days, still a little sweet and no hop flavor hence the amarillo's. What flavors will the wb-06 impart that the 05 will not? I can do a well timed cold pitch if i use the 05, will that be very beneficial?

[MtnBrewer]

My lack of description comes from my lack of experience, this is only my 5th brew and I have only recently begun drinking the others. They are good, I think I will go with the wb-06 and 2 hop additions one at 10 and one at 5 i think, maybe 1/2 oz at 10 and 1 oz at 5.

I understand. But the first thing you (well, I) do before creating a recipe is figure out what I want the beer to taste like. If I don't know what my goal is, how can I even begin to create a recipe that will achieve it? So what I'm asking for is what is your vision for this beer? Also, I can't evaluate a recipe and tell you whether it will taste the way you want it to if I don't know how you want it to taste.

I have been directed to mash the oats/wheat, which i did on the last recipe however at the direction of my LHBS i didn't use any malt during the mash, as "you will get enough conversion for that recipe without adding any 2/6 row"

I meant to bring that up in my previous post. Whoever told you that is wrong. Flaked wheat is not malted nor is flaked oats. You will need to include some malted barley or wheat in the grist and also restrict the "steeping" water to about 1.5 qt./lb. so that the pH remains in a range suitable for starch conversion. If I were you, I'd skip the flaked grains as I don't think they'll contribute much. Maybe steep a little bit of medium crystal, maybe half a pound, to add body and a little caramel sweetness.

The first batch with 05 tastes pretty good at 10 days, still a little sweet and no hop flavor hence the amarillos. What flavors will the wb-06 impart that the 05 will not? I can do a well timed cold pitch if i use the 05, will that be very beneficial?

The WB-06 will produce the traditional weizen flavors of banana esters and clove. The US-05 will give you very light esters and no clove. Cold pitching is great and if done right will produce a very active fermentation.

[BigDaddyD]

I meant to bring that up in my previous post. Whoever told you that is wrong. Flaked wheat is not malted nor is flaked oats. You will need to include some malted barley or wheat in the grist and also restrict the "steeping" water to about 1.5 qt./lb. so that the pH remains in a range suitable for starch conversion. If I were you, I'd skip the flaked grains as I don't think they'll contribute much. Maybe steep a little bit of medium crystal, maybe half a pound, to add body and a little caramel sweetness. Cold pitching is great and if done right will produce a very active fermentation.

the recipe's directions "place grains (flaked wh/oa) in 1 gallon cold water, slowly bring to 160, hold for 10 min. discard grain" courtesy of Adventures in Homebrewing. To ME I don't care how i brew it as long as it tastes like a beer i would drink. There are few beers I have had that I don't like. Obviously only I can know what I am looking for in a flavor profile, however my tastes are sophomoric at best and I have years ahead of me to sharpen my technique and palate. If there is "method to the madness" of this recipe I have recieved I will continue to use it otherwise, My trip to LHBS tomorrow will yield some malting ingredients. With 16 oz of flaked grains, how much malted grain should I mix in?

[MtnBrewer]

the recipe's directions "place grains (flaked wh/oa) in 1 gallon cold water, slowly bring to 160, hold for 10 min. discard grain" courtesy of Adventures in Homebrewing.

I think this is bad advice on a couple of levels. One, as we've already covered, unmalted adjuncts need to be mashed. Two, bringing up the temperature when the grains are in the pot is inadvisable. It's very easy to overshoot the temperature and cause tannins to be extracted. In this case, you'd get away with it since the grains are flaked but this isn't a good procedure in general.

To ME I don't care how i brew it as long as it tastes like a beer i would drink. There are few beers I have had that I don't like. Obviously only I can know what I am looking for in a flavor profile, however my tastes are sophomoric at best and I have years ahead of me to sharpen my technique and palate. If there is "method to the madness" of this recipe I have received I will continue to use it otherwise, My trip to LHBS tomorrow will yield some malting ingredients. With 16 oz of flaked grains, how much malted grain should I mix in?

A pound should do. However I'll say again that I don't think the cost/benefit ratio is there if you're trying to make a weizen. I'd skip the flaked grains and just use the wheat extract. If anything, I'd steep a little crystal.

[Slainte]

Yeah, I agree with what MtnBrewer is saying. Telling others to steep grains that need mashing is bad advice. Whether it be unmalted ingredients or base malts. Not sure why it's so common, especially among HB shops and some publications...I also agree that you probably don't need the flaked grains, but if you really want to do it, about a pound of base malt will be alright. Make sure you use about 1.5 qts of water per lb of grain, and mix everything evenly. I like to use large nylon mesh bags when I do partial mashes. The smaller muslin bags that people use to steep just won't cut it, they are too confining (unless you get a big one).

[BigDaddyD]

The smaller muslin bags that people use to steep just won't cut it, they are too confining (unless you get a big one).

yes as i discovered the bag they sent me was about 2Xs too small and I ended up having to use a different method to contain the grains MAJOR PITA, thats why i will be stocking up on bigger bags next time i go to my LHBS

[chuck_d]

PS - to avoid a "Blue Moon" flavor don't use orange peel, coriander or belgian wit yeast.

[BigDaddyD]

Yeah, I agree with what MtnBrewer is saying. Telling others to steep grains that need mashing is bad advice. Whether it be unmalted ingredients or base malts. Not sure why it's so common, especially among HB shops and some publications...

is it perhaps to produce a hazy beer?

[Jimmy James]

If you want hazy beer you can add a cup of flour - lot easier than trying to mash flaked, unmalted grains. I think if you try some different hefeweizens and can name some commercial examples you like then that helps us give advice sometimes as well. For example, I like Edelweiss and Erdinger Weissbiers. These are German Hefeweizen that have distinct banana flavors with some underlying clove spiciness. They are much different from a Belgian Witbier or an American Wheat. I'd do one of those brews with just the WLME, Hallertaur hops and the German wheat yeast, and leave out the honey and flaked grains. If you wanted something more like Widmer hefe or an American wheat then I'd go with the WLME and US05 yeast, maybe keep the honey but drop the flaked grains. Only reason to use the flaked grains IMO is if you are shooting more Belgian Witbier (of which Blue Moon is a bad example IMO) so it's hard to say whether that's something you would like or not...

[BigDaddyD]

If you want hazy beer you can add a cup of flour - lot easier than trying to mash flaked, unmalted grains.

Maybe flour is too hard to mark up to the customer. I will try the crystal suggestion and add the amarillo at the end, maybe a little honey in secondary too.