9 replies to this topic

[dondewey]

Pitched the yeast from a chilled 5L starter of WL 830 9 days ago into 10 gallons of 48F 1.055 highly fermentable wort (mashed at 148). It's only at 1.033 now. Does this seem slow to you? I know lagers are much slower than ales, but I was expecting it to be further along than this, especially considering the airlock has slowed significantly. This is my first lager since I've gone all-grain and have a fermentation chamber, etc. Most numbers I've seen online have led me to believe this is much slower than expected. It took between 1 and 2 days to really get started fermenting. Thanks!

[Big Nake]

Yeah, it seems a little slow. I make a lot of lagers, but unfortunately I don't have any real solutions for this. Your mash temp seems right. It sounds like you pitched enough yeast and your primary temp seems good. I don't see why a starter that big would take 48 hours to start. Did you oxygenate your wort? This is something that I always do and I don't really have a barometer for how well it works or doesn't work because I do it on every batch (ale or lager). Getting some pure O2 in there prior to pitching has always been strongly recommended. Your OG is a little higher than most of my lagers, but I will be making an Oktober with 2124 (basically the same as 830) that will be about 1.055. Do you have any idea how many milliliters of slurry was in your starter? Maybe it was low for the 10 gallons? Was the starter active (foaming)? I suppose at this point that I would swirl it a little and make sure that the yeast hasn't gone to sleep. Please keep us posted.

[ncbeerbrewer]

Lagers are so much slower than Ales you have to remember that. For me a lager will take anywhere from 14-21 days to ferment. You said it took 48 hours to start well to me that sounds reasonable it takes my ales up to 18 hrs to start sometimes too. Lager fermentation is so much calmer and reserved than ales as well. I would let it go and recheck the gravity on say Wed and see what your change is, its is still going down just wait and let it go. You can't expect a lager even at 1.050ish starting gravity to be done in about a week. Let us know how it goes. I think your mash and pitch temp and the rest sounds solid though too. Are you fermenting this as 10 gallons total volume in one carboy or did you split the starter or batch into 5 gallons each?

[dondewey]

Thanks for the replies. I ran pure O2 for a couple of minutes. The starter had been upsized 3 days before, and was pretty much fermented out. I didn't want to pitch the whole thing (made out of DME and fermented in the low 70s) so I thought it's better to let it finish and settle out. It's all in a 15 gallon keg (first time using this fermenter). I don't know how many mL, but looked like the amount I'd expect from that big of a starter based on my ale starters. I'm thinking if its down to 1.025 or so by the end of the week to gradually let the temp come up to the mid 60s for a few days to see how far it'll drop before cooling, racking, then lagering.. The sample tasted really good!edit: I was shooting for 1.050, but got a stuck mash (fly sparge) and basically ended up doing a couple of batch sparges instead. My eff. went from 75 to 82...

[Big Nake]

I wanted to mention something that I spoke with Greg Noonan about... when you have a good amount of healthy, active lager yeast, you can get lagers to ferment out in a week or so. Yes, this would require a lot of stars to align, but he told me that one thing he notices about homebrewers and lagers is that they leave their lagers in primary for far too long. I often leave lagers in primary for 2 weeks or so, but I have had batches made with yeast that was just reharvested in the last 24 hours and pitched a good amount of that into well-oxygenated wort that was at 45-50° and had the batch come down to FG in 4-5 days on a 1.050 beer. I suppose that under homebrewing conditions, there's nothing wrong with leaving the beer on the yeast for 2, 3 or even 4 weeks to make sure that it's fully fermented... but this isn't always absolutely necessary. BenZ., it sounds like it's on it's way down and should be just about done in a week or less... good luck & I hope it comes out well. Cheers.

[Lagerdemain]

I wanted to mention something that I spoke with Greg Noonan about... when you have a good amount of healthy, active lager yeast, you can get lagers to ferment out in a week or so. Yes, this would require a lot of stars to align, but he told me that one thing he notices about homebrewers and lagers is that they leave their lagers in primary for far too long. I often leave lagers in primary for 2 weeks or so, but I have had batches made with yeast that was just reharvested in the last 24 hours and pitched a good amount of that into well-oxygenated wort that was at 45-50° and had the batch come down to FG in 4-5 days on a 1.050 beer. I suppose that under homebrewing conditions, there's nothing wrong with leaving the beer on the yeast for 2, 3 or even 4 weeks to make sure that it's fully fermented... but this isn't always absolutely necessary. BenZ., it sounds like it's on it's way down and should be just about done in a week or less... good luck & I hope it comes out well. Cheers.

I disagree with Noonan on nearly all counts here. I think it's important to distinguish between wanting to hurry along primary fermentation to meet a commercial brewery's production schedule vs. making the best beer you can. Lager beers don't suffer from being on the yeast at lager temperatures, and I've found that my beers tend to taste best after a fairly long primary - in fact, I won't ever transfer a beer to a keg for lagering before four weeks at a minimum.As homebrewers, we don't have to worry about meeting production quotas and freeing up our fermenters, and in my opinion it's best to let the yeast do its thing at its own pace than to hurry it along.

[dondewey]

Quick update:I checked the gravity yesterday and it was down to 1.026, just barely past 2/3 done. So I bumped the temp controller up to 64F and it started bubbling a little more often now (it's at 58 or so; I'm just going to let it naturally rise in temp). I'll leave it for a few days, check the gravity, and then when it's done I'll slowly cool to 32F, rack into a couple of kegs and lager for a month. Sound ok?So: 3 weeks to get to get 68% of the way to FG.

[boo boo]

Don't rush your lager. Let it do its job at the temperture it was ment to ferment at. I think that yeast, if it is the same as WY2308 will need a diacetyl rest. When it is about 2/3 done jack up the temps to about 60f or so to finish at your expected terminal gravity. Then rack and lager. Don't take your brew off the primary yeast until your brewis finished.