26 replies to this topic

[jammer]

OK, im heating strike water for my first try at Denny's RyePA. From what i gather, my first hop addition should be to the kettle as im collecting the runoff. And i leave them in until after the boil. Correct?

[beach]

You've got it. Happy brew day.

[ncbeerbrewer]

You got it. The FWH come out to be equivalent to 20 minute additions. I brewed this last year with a buddy. Great beer. Enjoy!!

[3rd party JKor]

Someone want to explain what the point of first wort hopping is? I don't get it. Based on my understanding of the chemistry of the hops, adding hops with the first runnings will just start the isomerization process earlier, and due to the length in the pot you will lose utilization. So you don't get any flavor/aroma benefit and your bittering is reduced from a 60 min addition. So again, what's the point? "Smoother" bitterness?

[djinkc]

try it, you'll like it

Someone want to explain what the point of first wort hopping is? I don't get it. Based on my understanding of the chemistry of the hops, adding hops with the first runnings will just start the isomerization process earlier, and due to the length in the pot you will lose utilization. So you don't get any flavor/aroma benefit and your bittering is reduced from a 60 min addition. So again, what's the point? "Smoother" bitterness?

[3rd party JKor]

try it, you'll like it

Thanks for the link, I'll take a look at it.

[jammer]

Thanks guys. Now if i can get my runoff to go a little faster.

[zymot]

Someone want to explain what the point of first wort hopping is? I don't get it. Based on my understanding of the chemistry of the hops, adding hops with the first runnings will just start the isomerization process earlier, and due to the length in the pot you will lose utilization. So you don't get any flavor/aroma benefit and your bittering is reduced from a 60 min addition. So again, what's the point? "Smoother" bitterness?

Something about having them stand for some time (30-60 minutes?) at a moderate temp (~150°), ramping them up to 212° and then boiling for 60 minutes is different than throwing them into boiling wort for 60 minutes alone.It certainly makes a difference. To me, you get the counter balance to the sweet malt without the harsh tongue-attacking bitterness. It is a hop flavored enhanced bitterness, not a pure bitter. The malt and hops meld a little better.My favorite Alt uses FWH + 60 boil Hops only. I get enough spalt flavor, but not too much bitterness.zymot

[earthtone]

try it, you'll like it

I agree 100%. My house IPA right now has ONLY a FWH and a dry hop and it is deeeeeeelish.

[3rd party JKor]

Fine, then, I'll have to try it.

[3rd party JKor]

wrong thread.

Edited by JKoravos, 31 May 2009 - 09:10 AM.

[Stout_fan]

I'd call it a smoother rounder, less harsh bittering.

[BuxomBrewster]

This sounds like just the thing for me to try next.

[DubbelEntendre]

I'm assuming it works the same way with batch sparging. I'm curious, though, because after I add my sparge water, I let the grain bed resettle for 1/2 hour before I drain the sparge water. Would this have any effect on the FWH process?

[beach]

My g/f wasn't a fan of my IPA's until I started FWH'ing. I agree with Stout_fan, smoother bitterness. I haven't gotten a grasp on the complexities of the chemistry, but I love the result.

[denny]

because after I add my sparge water, I let the grain bed resettle for 1/2 hour before I drain the sparge water.

Why the heck are you doing that? I just stir in the sparge water, vorluaf, and runoff. The entire process, from the time I start my mash runoff til the time I end my sparge runoff, takes only 15 min. for 7.5-8 gal. of wort. You're wasting some serious time, man!But, to answer the question you _really_ asked, no, it won't make any difference to the FWH.

[DubbelEntendre]

The entire process, from the time I start my mash runoff til the time I end my sparge runoff, takes only 15 min. for 7.5-8 gal. of wort. You're wasting some serious time, man!

Noted. Also, because Palmer said to let it stand for 15 minutes. Not sure why I bumped that up to 30.

But, to answer the question you _really_ asked, no, it won't make any difference to the FWH.

Word.edit: added Palmer anecdote.

Edited by DubbelEntendre, 02 June 2009 - 01:24 PM.

[Thirsty]

I'm assuming it works the same way with batch sparging. I'm curious, though, because after I add my sparge water, I let the grain bed resettle for 1/2 hour before I drain the sparge water. Would this have any effect on the FWH process?

In the link DJ posted it mentions pH having a factor at the preboil stage in isomerization for bitterness, but dosnt mention much about the "why" for aroma. From what I have seen, the aroma comes from oils in the hop's glands that are volatile at boil temperatures. So very little oils are extracted when the addition is added at boiltime, and what is extracted usually vaporizes. The FWH allows these oils to be extracted in a much higher volume due to optimum temperature, so even though some boil off occurs, much oil is left behind, producing aroma. The other way for extracting besides these optimum temps is the more obvious dryhop, and that gets its success because now alcohol is involved which aids in the stripping of these oils during the secondary/keg period. The third alternative is to filter through the hopback, but to get optimum results you would want to chill the wort to 150-160 before doing so, which is ideal. That is at least what I have learned so far.

[djinkc]

In the link DJ posted it mentions pH having a factor at the preboil stage in isomerization for bitterness, but dosnt mention much about the "why" for aroma. From what I have seen, the aroma comes from oils in the hop's glands that are volatile at boil temperatures. So very little oils are extracted when the addition is added at boiltime, and what is extracted usually vaporizes. The FWH allows these oils to be extracted in a much higher volume due to optimum temperature, so even though some boil off occurs, much oil is left behind, producing aroma. The other way for extracting besides these optimum temps is the more obvious dryhop, and that gets its success because now alcohol is involved which aids in the stripping of these oils during the secondary/keg period. The third alternative is to filter through the hopback, but to get optimum results you would want to chill the wort to 150-160 before doing so, which is ideal. That is at least what I have learned so far.

There are several more FWH articles out there if you google it enough. Honestly, my organic chemistry days etc., are so far gone that I can barely make sense of some of them. And I do remember enough that most of them are educated guesses at why what happens. Supposedly, IIRC, it started with a screw up when the hops were accidentally thrown in before the wort way back when in Germany. Serendipity can be a cool thing. Regardless, I feel it is a great technique to try with just about any style of beer.Plus, it can be one of those brew days where a whole lot of other stuff can be done because you have nothing to do during the boil except don't boilover.

[denny]

Noted. Also, because Palmer said to let it stand for 15 minutes.

I respectfully disagree wit John on this. I wonder how much batch sparging he's actually done?