14 replies to this topic

[toonces]

so mrs. toon brought home a 6 of dundees honey brown lager. and really liked it. so, i tried to clone, or come close to it. looking at northern brewers selections of honey, i got a wild hair and decided that i's try some of their wildflower honey. but, i decided that since i was trying this recipe, i'd only do a half batch. when i got the honey, i tasted it. blech. it had an almost chemical aftertaste. is that common with wildflower honey? i decided to use it anyway. who knows, maybe it will turn out great.for 2.5 gallons:3# halcyon pale6 oz flaked corn2.5oz special roast2.5 oz chocolate malt2 oz carapils2 oz carafoam1.5# wildflower honey.25 oz target pellet 13.9% 15 min.25 oz ek golding pellet 4.5% 15 min.25 oz ek golding whole 6.3% 15 minwlp 840 am lagerit has a nice color, and GREAT aroma. but, that damned wildflower aftertaste.does anyone know if that will mellow with age? or should i dump it?

[ncbeerbrewer]

It sounds to me like you tasted the wildflower honey on its own before you added it to your half recipe brown ale? My thought is that if you don't like the flavor or aftertaste of the honey by itself then I would avoid using it in a beer. I have never brewed with Wildflower honey before so I am not sure the flavor would fade over time but if I guessed I would say yes. I would suggest letting it sit. Its beer and I think you probably don't have anything to lose. Does your wife like it though? I say if you go this route again try a honey that you like just by itself and see if that works. PS: I just posted a recipe I wanted to share for a Honey Brown Ale that I used and added honey post boil and at kegging. It turned out great honestly. Check it out if you like for other ideas. $0.02

[MolBasser]

I made an epic Impy Stout with 3 pounds of honey at flame out.You'd think that you would be able to notice in an impy stout, but no, the honey character was very present.I can't imagine the type of aftertaste you describe coming from honey though...... Honey is very subtle.BrewBasser

[Gumbo Leviathan]

Ive used clover honey and buckwheat honey before in beer. The clover honey made a very subtle flavor, almost imperceptible. It mostly just increased the alcohol level more than added any real flavor. The buckwheat honey was very noticable. 2lbs in a 5 gallon batch. This beer came out with a very distinct flavor of the buckwheat honey but without the sweetness. I put this into a winter warmer kind of brown ale that had vanilla, cinnamon and nutmeg in it as well. I am going to try this again but with a simpler beer to see if the buckwheat makes for a good flavor in a "simple" brown ale.

[NomNomHopzinator]

It sounds to me like you tasted the wildflower honey on its own before you added it to your half recipe brown ale? My thought is that if you don't like the flavor or aftertaste of the honey by itself then I would avoid using it in a beer. I have never brewed with Wildflower honey before so I am not sure the flavor would fade over time but if I guessed I would say yes. I would suggest letting it sit. Its beer and I think you probably don't have anything to lose. Does your wife like it though? I say if you go this route again try a honey that you like just by itself and see if that works. PS: I just posted a recipe I wanted to share for a Honey Brown Ale that I used and added honey post boil and at kegging. It turned out great honestly. Check it out if you like for other ideas. $0.02

Is there a big flavor/aroma difference by adding it later vs adding it to the boil? I have heard of priming with honey but I haven't tasted anyone's brew that has done it.

[gnef]

There is a huge aroma difference. I only add honey after the peak of primary fermentation for this reason.I have added honey to a couple of beers off the top of my head. Liquid stupid, a belgian golden strong, was one. I can't really remember being able to perceive the orange blossom honey, though next time I try it, I will have to pay closer attention.I have also made a braggot, and there the honey is in the flavor, due to it not being fully fermented - I made a barleywine base, unhopped, that would've come out to around 11% by itself, then added 10# of honey, this is for a 6 gallon batch. I think it is around 18%, and still very sweet (FG 1.04, I believe), I have added oak to it to try to balance out some of the flavors, but if anything, it is a good desert drink.I do make a lot of meads though too, and I never boil the honey, or even warm it.

[The Brew Dude]

Of course, the philosophical question (is there an actual guideline?) is, how much honey do you have to add to a brew before it changes from a honey beer to a braggot?

[ncbeerbrewer]

I agree with gnef on his comments. I think you can get a great honey flavor especially if you keg using the method I described in my brown ale in the recipe swap. 6oz of honey added to the keg, keep it cold and it turns out great.Adding honey to the boil just allows another sugar source for the yeast to consume and make alcohol. You don't get any aroma or flavor from that.

[Genesee Ted]

I have never seen guidelines for how much honey to include in a braggot. However, being that it is a mead and beer hybrid, there should be a substantial amount. Enough that there is a clear and distinct honey character in conjunction with the expected beer character. When I make braggots, I live derive at least 25% of my fermentable sugars from honey. I have gone much higher than that with some second runnings and such. The key to getting a great honey flavor is to not boil it. Add it at flameout or during the chilling process. You can add it after primary but it will be much more difficult to get to dissolve. Lots of shaking, lots of CO2 pushed off, etc... As far as that "chemical" aftertaste, I am guessing that a large portion of your wildflower honey is from alfalfa. It can be aggressive, almost camphor-like it high quantities. And wildflower honey is basically a hodgepodge of whatever the apiarist brought their hives to pollinate. Props for trying to clone Dundee's Honey Brown though! Made right here in Rochester. They make a lot of really good beers that are right up there with Saranac and the like for lower priced craft offerings. I love their pale bock.

[MolBasser]

Of course, the philosophical question (is there an actual guideline?) is, how much honey do you have to add to a brew before it changes from a honey beer to a braggot?

technically, it is a braggot as soon as a drop of honey hits it.BrewBasser

[MtnBrewer]

[SchwanzBrewer]

I missed my OG on a RIS a few weeks back. I used 1lb of molasses and 2lb of honey to make it up. Should be an interesting beer.

[SchwanzBrewer]

I have a RIS braggot. It's very good. 1 gallon of honey in 4 gallons of RIS.

Mines not even close to that since it's 10 gallons. Should be interesting. 1/2 is going in a barrel.