36 replies to this topic

[zymot]

Take 2:

Hop Additions:

1oz Glacier FWH
1.25oz Magnum 60min
2oz Williamette 5min
2oz Cascade 1min

Estimated IBU: 68.12

Yeast:

1056 American

Thoughts?

Just me, but, Glacier is a nice polite neutral hop. I would not use them as a FWH addition. For me they do not have the kind of hop sparkle for a FWH. Put them in at 15-10 minutes and see what you can come up with for a FWH.

Others might want to offer differing opinions on Glaciers.

Do not be afraid to bump up the 60 minute Magnum. IMHO 1.25 oz in an AIPA is not enough, especially at your target OG of 1.070. You could go 2 ounces no problem. Magnum are not like most of the other high alpha. Nothing but good basic bitterness to go with all your malt. One of the best beers I ever brewed was an morebeer english IPA kit that used 2 oz magnums @ 60 minutes. It wasn't a hophead beer, it was a properly balanced IPA.

Your program may calculate 68 IBU, but with what you have now, I think it will taste less than 68 IBU.

zymot

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

Just me, but, Glacier is a nice polite neutral hop. I would not use them as a FWH addition. For me they do not have the kind of hop sparkle for a FWH. Put them in at 15-10 minutes and see what you can come up with for a FWH. Others might want to offer differing opinions on Glaciers. Do not be afraid to bump up the 60 minute Magnum. IMHO 1.25 oz in an AIPA is not enough, especially at your target OG of 1.070. You could go 2 ounces no problem. Magnum are not like most of the other high alpha. Nothing but good basic bitterness to go with all your malt. One of the best beers I ever brewed was an morebeer english IPA kit that used 2 oz magnums @ 60 minutes. It wasn't a hophead beer, it was a properly balanced IPA. Your program may calculate 68 IBU, but with what you have now, I think it will taste less than 68 IBU. zymot

Interesting - I can certainly use something else to FWH. I have more williamette and cascade that I could use in it's place. Would one of those be better? As for the Magnum - 2oz! The AA level on this stuff is pretty high (12.1). What was the magnum that you used like? edit: at what point do I have to worry about having too much hops in the boil and a vegetable taste coming through? The hoppiest stuff I've made up to this point is a really hoppy APA (I think 6 oz of not super high AA stuff).

[zymot]

Interesting - I can certainly use something else to FWH. I have more williamette and cascade that I could use in it's place. Would one of those be better? As for the Magnum - 2oz! The AA level on this stuff is pretty high (12.1). What was the magnum that you used like?

Don't get me wrong, glacier is not a bad choice. It will make for a good beer. Williamette or cascade for FWH would be good. Depends on if you like one over the other. Williamette will be more spicy, cascade is a the classic citrus hop. Spicy or citrus, your choice. Magnum is not as hoppy the way other hops are. Very neutral, no citrus, no spicy, not noble, no earthy. There is none of that harsh burns the back of your tongue kind of bitterness. 2 oz sounds like alot, but it is not. I liek IPA, but I am not a hophead.

edit: at what point do I have to worry about having too much hops in the boil and a vegetable taste coming through? The hoppiest stuff I've made up to this point is a really hoppy APA (I think 6 oz of not super high AA stuff).

Some will tell you never worry about too much hops. The most reliable way is the BU:OG ratio method. Example: IBU of 25 - OG of 1.050 = 25/50 = .500. IPAs are typically .70 to 1.00. Now you have something to compare recipes to. Ray Daniels "Design Great Beer" and Jamilz recipe book will tell you where hop levels are for different style and can provide a good reference. Also a reliable clone recipe is a good reference to see what makes a given beer it's personality. With your beer, you could go up to 71 IBU and still be in what most people think of as an IPA. +/- 10 IBU is not easy to detect, so they say. zymot

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

Don't get me wrong, glacier is not a bad choice. It will make for a good beer. Williamette or cascade for FWH would be good. Depends on if you like one over the other. Williamette will be more spicy, cascade is a the classic citrus hop. Spicy or citrus, your choice. Magnum is not as hoppy the way other hops are. Very neutral, no citrus, no spicy, not noble, no earthy. There is none of that harsh burns the back of your tongue kind of bitterness. 2 oz sounds like alot, but it is not. I liek IPA, but I am not a hophead. Some will tell you never worry about too much hops. The most reliable way is the BU:OG ratio method. Example: IBU of 25 - OG of 1.050 = 25/50 = .500. IPAs are typically .70 to 1.00. Now you have something to compare recipes to. Ray Daniels "Design Great Beer" and Jamilz recipe book will tell you where hop levels are for different style and can provide a good reference. Also a reliable clone recipe is a good reference to see what makes a given beer it's personality. With your beer, you could go up to 71 IBU and still be in what most people think of as an IPA. +/- 10 IBU is not easy to detect, so they say. zymot

2oz of Magnum pushes it up to 96 IBU with my other hop additions.

[zymot]

2oz of Magnum pushes it up to 96 IBU with my other hop additions.

and your point is? JK I know what you mean. It looks like alot of hops, but of it is magnum, it isn't. If this was 2 oz of chinook hops, or some of the uber-aggressive high alpha, I would agree, back it down. But 2 oz of magnum is not alot. If you are worried, put in as much as you are comfortable with. You will still make a great beer if you error on the side of caution. You will be surprised how close you ended up to an APA. (not that there is anything wrong it jerry) The next batch, you will think, "Yeah zymot was right this IPA could use more than 1.20 oz of magnum." You can thank me then. zymot

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

and your point is? JK I know what you mean. It looks like alot of hops, but of it is magnum, it isn't. If this was 2 oz of chinook hops, or some of the uber-aggressive high alpha, I would agree, back it down. But 2 oz of magnum is not alot. If you are worried, put in as much as you are comfortable with. You will still make a great beer if you error on the side of caution. You will be surprised how close you ended up to an APA. (not that there is anything wrong it jerry) The next batch, you will think, "Yeah zymot was right this IPA could use more than 1.20 oz of magnum." You can thank me then. zymot

I'm doing it so I can thank you now. I don't fear hops!

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

Brewing today - here is the final recipe:

Grains:

7lbs 2-row
6lbs Munich
1lbs Crystal 65L

mash at 150F

Hops:

1.5 oz Williamette FWH
2.0 oz Magnum for 60 min
2.0 oz Williamette for 5 min
2.0 oz Cascade for 1 min

Yeast:

Most of a 3.5L starter of 1056

I'm calculating about 100 IBUs for this but as Zymot mentioned the magnum is pretty smooth stuff and it's contributing to about 79 IBUs of that bitterness. Any last minute suggestions are welcome.

[ncbeerbrewer]

Good Luck. Recipe looks great. I will be interested to see your impression from the higher amount of munich. I used around 1-2lbs in all my IPA's so love to hear your feedback. Hop schedule looks nice. I think the 4 oz in the last 5 mins will be great and add that to the FWH nice. Hope the brewday goes smooth for you and 1056 kicks off strong.

[zymot]

zymological,Wow, you went went with the full bore 2 oz of magnum after all. If you want an AIPA, you won't be sorry.1.5 oz FWH willamette & ~50% munich plus the willamette/cascade to punch up the nose.I bet you are going to love this beer. Great combination of bold and balance. Solid malt profile & solid hop additions.zymot

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

zymological, Wow, you went went with the full bore 2 oz of magnum after all. If you want an AIPA, you won't be sorry. 1.5 oz FWH willamette & ~50% munich plus the willamette/cascade to punch up the nose. I bet you are going to love this beer. Great combination of bold and balance. Solid malt profile & solid hop additions. zymot

So my mash was a degree or 2 higher than I wanted - a little more malt I guess. I think I was a little generous with the williamette I just weighed though so that should help even the score

[zymot]

zymological,

How did this turn out?

So you know I practice what I preach. I have a collection of hops that I am putting into a AIPA hop bomb.

1.00 oz Santiam FWH
2.00 oz Magnum 60 min - 13% AA <---- just as I advised you to do
1.00 oz Santiam 30 min
1.20 oz hop mix 20 min
1.20 oz hop mix 15 min
1.20 oz hop mix 10 min
1.20 oz hop mix 5 min
1.20 oz hop mix 0 min
hop mix = 1/3 Centennials, 1/3 Amarillo & 1/3 Mt Hood - ~8.00% AA
(10 ounces of hops i a 5 gallon batch)

14.50 lbs 2 row base malt (details tbd)
3.00 lbs Vienna
1.00 lb Wheat Malt
1.00 lb Aromatic
0.50 lb Carapils

Yeast: US-05, 2 ea

OG: 1.090-1.100
IBU: >100 IBU

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

zymological, How did this turn out?

Not sure - I have this AIPA and a Scottish Ale (the Scottish Ale is older) in secondary in the beer fridge. I'm considering pulling the AIPA out first since Scottish Ales like extended aging anyway. I'll try to remember to post back here. I can tell you it smelled great

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

zymological,

How did this turn out?

So you know I practice what I preach. I have a collection of hops that I am putting into a AIPA hop bomb.

1.00 oz Santiam FWH
2.00 oz Magnum 60 min - 13% AA <---- just as I advised you to do
1.00 oz Santiam 30 min
1.20 oz hop mix 20 min
1.20 oz hop mix 15 min
1.20 oz hop mix 10 min
1.20 oz hop mix 5 min
1.20 oz hop mix 0 min
hop mix = 1/3 Centennials, 1/3 Amarillo & 1/3 Mt Hood - ~8.00% AA
(10 ounces of hops i a 5 gallon batch)

14.50 lbs 2 row base malt (details tbd)
3.00 lbs Vienna
1.00 lb Wheat Malt
1.00 lb Aromatic
0.50 lb Carapils

Yeast: US-05, 2 ea

OG: 1.090-1.100
IBU: >100 IBU

That's a BIG freaking beer. Yowzer!

[zymot]

That's a BIG freaking beer. Yowzer!

If you get an OG that can keep up with the IBU, it can make for a very drinkable beer. This was inspired by the JPA recipe. Noble hops for the bittering. JPA, uses norther brewer, I am using a combo magnum + santiam. Then citrus hops late. JPA uses amarillo, centenials & cascade, I substituted mt hood for cascade. The JPA is more complex in the grain bill, I simplify it and will not use in cara or crystal malts. For me, the secret to the JPA is the noble hops for bittering. Some of the other well known big AIPA use the more harsh hops and I do not enjoy them. zymot

[DaBearSox]

I think that graph is misleading by being skewed toward the malty. It suggests that a BU:GU of 0.9 is off scale and more than "extra hoppy", while 1 is the ROT for an IPA, in my mind.

I was thinking that too especially for this style...I really like it as a reference for most styles however which is why i popped it up there ...i really like the updated version. Think my next batch is going to be an AIPA probably in the 1.065-1.070 range...I am looking for a nice citrusy/piney hop presence so I am thinking of bittering with Magnum, FWH with a little bit of Chinook, and flavor blasting with Cascade/Amarillo/Chinook Probably mostly Maris Otter with a little crystal

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

I was thinking that too especially for this style...I really like it as a reference for most styles however which is why i popped it up there ...i really like the updated version. Think my next batch is going to be an AIPA probably in the 1.065-1.070 range...I am looking for a nice citrusy/piney hop presence so I am thinking of bittering with Magnum, FWH with a little bit of Chinook, and flavor blasting with Cascade/Amarillo/Chinook Probably mostly Maris Otter with a little crystal

Now that I think of it I think the whole thing is off - for instance, my MLPA was about 1.047 with 30 IBUs. This is on the edge of "extra hoppy" to which I say - no freakin' way. That beer is pretty balanced if not slightly on the malty side in my opinion.

[zymot]

Now that I think of it I think the whole thing is off - for instance, my MLPA was about 1.047 with 30 IBUs. This is on the edge of "extra hoppy" to which I say - no freakin' way. That beer is pretty balanced if not slightly on the malty side in my opinion.

Depends on your point of reference. To some people, all beer (bud, coors, PBR) is "bitter" and SNPA is "too bitter." If you think SNPA is just right (like I do) and above that is when you get into real bitter. And then there are those who you can't get too bitter. That is what my recipe is shooting for, saturation of IBU, but not too bitter. The chart is a place to start. I am sold on the IBU/GU ratio concept. zymot