22 replies to this topic

[passlaku]

I had the opportunity to listen to Dr. Bamforth's lectures on the science and history of brewing and he argued in one of his lectures that the brewing community is extremely balkanized. He notes that vintners are much more fraternal, and he wishes that brewers were more like them. While he makes the case for commercial brewers, I guess I have seen that in homebrewing too. I remember the AHA had to publish all sorts of articles defending their accepting adds for Budweiser in Zymurgy. I have also seen that the dudes at the brewing network tend to have little clashes with other podcast (brew crazy?) and the homebrewtalk forum. I suppose what Bamforth misses is that these clashes are what happens when you get people who are really passionate about something together. And at the commercial level, I don't suppose the wine industry has a winery which is as aggressive as AnnheiserBuschInBev is in brewing. I would imagine that vintners (on their forums) are pretty upset with the guy that makes Two Buck Chuck.

[3rd party JKor]

Zip it, drunkie!!!

[DaBearSox]

I dont see it at all...Most of the Colorado breweries all support each other. They like to compete against each other but at the end of the day they are all friends....except most of the brewers/breweries dislike New Belgium...

[zymot]

I remember Sam Adams sharing it's stash of hops with it's competition and doing so at it's cost.Sierra Nevada co-brews with it's competition like Anchor brewing. So do many other breweries.Homebrewers are the most helpful and unselfish of all the hobbies I know about. The support your LHBS motto is unusual.Some times a homebrewer gets a high and mighty by slamming BMC type beers. But that is a peppering of an attitude scattered across homebrewers in general.I have never seen anything snarky from the craft breweries directed against the big boys.I guess my opinion is Bamforth is in great error.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

I dont see it at all...Most of the Colorado breweries all support each other. They like to compete against each other but at the end of the day they are all friends....except most of the brewers/breweries dislike New Belgium...

I think you'll always find something like this which is kind of the dude's point. Everyone who is successful is a sellout

[passlaku]

He makes several interesting points, it was seven cds. It did great for the long thanksgiving drive to meet with the family. I found them at the local library.

[BrianBrewerKS]

I think, for the most part, craft breweries stick together and support each other. See a lot of 'collaborative' beers, which is neat. And for the most part I think homebrewers are pretty open to each other as well...sharing recipes, processes, tips, etc. I think that self promotion plays a pretty big part in the sharing of recipes/knowledge...but so what?Craft breweries do throw the occasional jab toward the big boys (BMC)...but that's to be expected.And I like wine, but I couldn't care less how ghey the vintners are with each other. Just don't get any of it in the wine to where I could possibly catch it.

[BlKtRe]

Commercial Breweries around here Boulevard, Freestate, 23rd St, Blind Tiger, and 75th all bend over backwards for home brewers. As far as how each of those breweries get along with each other, they all do. Either sharing hops or barrels, they all get along just fine.Even the brew clubs Lawrence Brewers Guild, ZZ Hops, Kansas City Beer Meister's, Jay Hops, and Topeka Hall of Foamer's all get along with each other. As a matter of fact we are putting together a Brew Comp just for all of our clubs and going to hold an event so we can get to know each other even better and plan out objectives and events that include all of us. But just like anything where people are passionate there are a handful of people that think their dodo doesn't stink and everyone else is subpar.

[Deerslyr]

<snip>But just like anything where people are passionate there are a handful of people that think their dodo doesn't stink and everyone else is subpar.

I thought dodo's were extinct? How do we know how they smell?just kidding...I think that there is a fair amount of cooperation in brewing, but by the same token, there is a fair amount of competition. After all, beer is probably more of a blue collar thing and attracts a certain type of personality... the aggressive type. Wine on the other hand... well, a wine snob is a wine snob. Personally, I like the beer mentality. It's the same as in my industry. We'll beat each other up over a document, but when we get together at the annual industry conference, its like seeing an old friend. Really no hatred to be had.

[zymot]

I thought dodo's were extinct? How do we know how they smell?

I heard they smell like McNuggets.

just kidding...

I am not sure if I am kidding or not.

[beach]

I couldn't care less how ghey the vintners are with each other. Just don't get any of it in the wine to where I could possibly catch it.

Beach

[3rd party JKor]

I get why some brewers resent the big boys, but I think it's stupid. Those guys made a decision to be more about profitability than variety and flavor. How can you blame them for that? It's a completely valid decision. Bring the masses what they want and make a buttload of money doing it. Sounds awesome to me.

[drewseslu]

I have attended two talks and read two books by Bamforth, and while I respect him and his expertise immensely, the man has an uncanny ability to divide a room. While he extolls the virtues of craft beer he derides its brashness and exploratory nature. Imagine standing at the microphone defending BMC with a room full of craft brewers and telling them that their beers are grossly over hopped...I was in the 10th row...The reality is much more like the impressions y'all have. The family of craft brewers here in StL is as close knit as my immediate family (and some of the ABI folks, as well).

[Malzig]

I get why some brewers resent the big boys, but I think it's stupid. Those guys made a decision to be more about profitability than variety and flavor. How can you blame them for that? It's a completely valid decision. Bring the masses what they want and make a buttload of money doing it. Sounds awesome to me.

Just don't call their rice wine beer, that's all I ask.

[shmgeggie]

The LHBS owner here is *extremely* opinionated and can come off as a little harsh at times. Like one time, he started going off about how those "young guys on the internet" are doing this thing called "batch sparging" and that's a terrible thing because all that stirring you have to do releases tannins into the wort. I batch sparge but I just kept my mouth shut, since I don't really enjoy arguing. I did think that it was funny that I immediately thought of Denny Conn when he mentioned those young guys on the internet.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

The LHBS owner here is *extremely* opinionated and can come off as a little harsh at times. Like one time, he started going off about how those "young guys on the internet" are doing this thing called "batch sparging" and that's a terrible thing because all that stirring you have to do releases tannins into the wort. I batch sparge but I just kept my mouth shut, since I don't really enjoy arguing. I did think that it was funny that I immediately thought of Denny Conn when he mentioned those young guys on the internet.

What's all that stirring he's talking about? Don't the pros stir the mash continuously?

[shmgeggie]

What's all that stirring he's talking about? Don't the pros stir the mash continuously?

I didn't ask.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

I didn't ask.

probably for the best. i know a guy who's a pro brewer and I mentioned batch sparging to him and he had never heard of it. he also seemed concerned about tannin extraction during but it was during the sparge. I'd be interested for him to try some of my beers and see what he thinks - dude is tough to get ahold of though.

[shmgeggie]

probably for the best. i know a guy who's a pro brewer and I mentioned batch sparging to him and he had never heard of it. he also seemed concerned about tannin extraction during but it was during the sparge. I'd be interested for him to try some of my beers and see what he thinks - dude is tough to get ahold of though.

I was under the impression that it's easier to keep pH in range when batch sparging and as long as you keep temps at 170F or below, you're ok. But that's what I get for believing what I read on the internetz!

[Malzig]

Some people are concerned about alien abductions, too.On the other hand, there's probably more evidence for those than increased tannin extraction due to batch sparging.