17 replies to this topic

[Calder]

I have some old Honey I want to use up. Thought I would make a sparkling Cyser with it.Never done one before, so would appreciate any advice.Thoughts are:5 gallons cider (~1.050) + 5 lbs of honey = 5 gallons with SG ~1.075.Fermenting with ale yeast should get it down to 1.000, bottle and prime. Thinking of using PacMan yeast since it is clean fermenting and high alcohol tolerance (and I've got plenty of it).Is an ale yeast the best option. A wine yeast will take the FG down lower and make it dryer, and possibly strip more flavor from it. If a wine yeast would be better, any recommendations. I'm about to place an order for a lot of supplies, so can add any yeast.How long should I keep in bulk/when could it be bottled. I would prefer not to leave it conditioning in bulk for too long so that there is still sufficient yeast in suspension to carbonate the bottles. I was thinking of 2 to 3 months.This is going to be about 10% abv. How long will I need to wait until it is drinkable. How long should I wait for it to be at it's best? .......... I'll probably sample it 'regularly' in the interests of education, but I have plenty of beer and cider around that it will not be a problem keeping it for a good while.I wasn't planning on adding anything else to it; no spices, no fruit, etc. Is this a mistake, will it be too bland? I have some WLP550 (Belgium yeast) I could use to add some phenolic flavor; just didn't seem right.I've never done this before; any advice.

[strangebrewer]

I have some old Honey I want to use up. Thought I would make a sparkling Cyser with it.Never done one before, so would appreciate any advice.Thoughts are:5 gallons cider (~1.050) + 5 lbs of honey = 5 gallons with SG ~1.075.Fermenting with ale yeast should get it down to 1.000, bottle and prime. Thinking of using PacMan yeast since it is clean fermenting and high alcohol tolerance (and I've got plenty of it).Is an ale yeast the best option. A wine yeast will take the FG down lower and make it dryer, and possibly strip more flavor from it. If a wine yeast would be better, any recommendations. I'm about to place an order for a lot of supplies, so can add any yeast.

I haven't used PacMan myself so I don't know just how far it would take a cyser but my general experience with ale yeasts is they tend to slow down around 1.010 so it will probably get you in the ballpark FG you are aiming for. A wine yeast would get you to 1.000 and possibly a little lower.

How long should I keep in bulk/when could it be bottled. I would prefer not to leave it conditioning in bulk for too long so that there is still sufficient yeast in suspension to carbonate the bottles. I was thinking of 2 to 3 months.This is going to be about 10% abv. How long will I need to wait until it is drinkable. How long should I wait for it to be at it's best? .......... I'll probably sample it 'regularly' in the interests of education, but I have plenty of beer and cider around that it will not be a problem keeping it for a good while.I wasn't planning on adding anything else to it; no spices, no fruit, etc. Is this a mistake, will it be too bland? I have some WLP550 (Belgium yeast) I could use to add some phenolic flavor; just didn't seem right.I've never done this before; any advice.

Once it has fermented out then 2-3 months bulk aging sounds good. You may want to consider adding a clarifier if you want it crystal clear in that time frame. If it were me, particularly if you do add a clarifier, I'd also add some additional yeast like US05 at bottling to make sure you've got some fresh viable yeast to carbonate with.At 10% ABV you are probably looking at around 6 months before it starts to get good.Spicing is personal preference and I tend to add a little something to my cysers. I like to add raisins to cysers to give them a little more body and mouthfeel. Dates also make a very nice contribution without being overpowering. Adding Cinnamon and nutmeg is common but not really my favorite again it's all about what you like.Cysers are great beverages, something I look forward to making and drinking every year!

[strangebrewer]

Ale yeast will certainly ferment dry in 100% fermentables given correct nutrients are present. With the scenario given, there is no reason why the ale yeast shouldn't get down to around 1.000 or maybe lower. Just use the Staggered Nutrient Addition protocol.I've made a 10% ABV melomel that was ready to drink at about 2 or 3 months. Of course it will get better over time, but it is hard to regulate how much we drink when I have it on tap.

It sounded like the OP was concerned about it getting too dry so I'd be very careful with the staggered Nutrient Additions. It's a proven method but it's also how I have ended up with some 16% ABV meads, cysers, and melomels. Pacman is a tough ale yeast that on it's own would probably get below 1.010. I don't have good data on the nutrient and nitrogen needs of ale yeasts so I'm always hesitant to add things that may not be needed. Have you ever seen anything on that subject?

[Calder]

Lots of good things to think about. Thanks. Any other suggestion?How would you add raisins or dates? Do you need to pasturize them?When I disolve the honey, I was going to add to hot water, about 150F for 10 mins to pasturize it. Any problems with this. Would there be any bad effects with boiling it, though that is not my intention.With a healthy pitch, I would expect PacMan to reach FG within a few days, a week at most. It just took a beer from 1.066 to 1.012 in 3 days at 68 F. I'm expecting FG in that case to be about 1.010. I was not planning to add any nutrient; is that a mistake.I like dry wines; can't stand sweet. Some Brut Champaigns are too sweet for me. So I would like to dry this out.

[Calder]

All good stuff.Forgive my ignorance, but in the many years of brewing beer, the only thing I would add to the wort (apart from yeast) that has not had some effort to sanitize it are hops when added to a secondary. So adding both honey and dried fruit to the unfermented must seems to be asking for trouble. Apparently it is OK since you have lots of experience. Can you provide an explanation as to why the difference in philosophies. If I were adding raisins or dates to beer (even fermented with alcohol in it), I would probably soak them in some alcohol first to kill any potential contaminant.

[Calder]

Finally made this last night:4.5 gallons cider5 lbs Honey24 ozs chopped raisinsPacMan yeast slurryOG 1.090Is there any easy way to chop raisins. I wiped down a glass chopping board with alcohol, and the blade of a 10 inch chefs knife, and chopped them on the board. It didn't do the blade much good, I had to give it a quick sharpening afterwards to get the edge back. It wasn't hard, but raisins are all sticky and it was just a pain - what do other people do?

[EWW]

I use the food processor with a little must added for lubrication.

[Calder]

Don't you worry about contamination with using a food processor?It's gotten off to a quick start. Some activity at 12 hours, and really going now at almost 24 hours.Question: Do I need to feed nutrient to the yeast. Not sure how much there is in cider, honey, and raisins.If so, what should I use, how much, and when? The only nutrient I have ever used was tossing the occasional old yeast pack in boiling wort. Not sure it really did anything as there is plenty of nutrients in beer. Would old yeast do for this; I have plenty I could mix with a little water and heat in a microwave. For anything else I would have to go and get from my LHBS.

[EWW]

Don't you worry about contamination with using a food processor?

not really a big concern for me

It's gotten off to a quick start. Some activity at 12 hours, and really going now at almost 24 hours.Question: Do I need to feed nutrient to the yeast. Not sure how much there is in cider, honey, and raisins.If so, what should I use, how much, and when? The only nutrient I have ever used was tossing the occasional old yeast pack in boiling wort. Not sure it really did anything as there is plenty of nutrients in beer. Would old yeast do for this; I have plenty I could mix with a little water and heat in a microwave. For anything else I would have to go and get from my LHBS.

take a look at hightest's FAQ on staggered nutrient additions. They aren't needed, but they make the process go smoother in my opinion.

[Calder]

Another question on this Cyser. This is going to be of the order of 11 to 11.5% when it is done. When bottling, is it normal/better to keep this flat or to carbonate?I will be pushing the limits of this yeast, so I might not have a choice.

[Calder]

I just could never justify the initial cost of a keg set-up. And then where to put the kegerator. A plus would be that the wife would't know how much I have drunk (neither would I). A negative would be that I couldn't tell if my teenagers had tried to sample it.I'm quite happy sticking to bottles for now. Sometimes it's quite pleasant to escape down in the basement and spend a couple of hours bottling; other times it's a real pain ...I know the sugars are supposed to be 'simple' and the yeast should eat them all up, but I'd be concerned about adding a wine yeast at bottling and having it take several more points off the gravity while in the bottle.

[Calder]

I'm not going to add any different yeast. Just see where this one takes me. Still debating over still or sparkling; I guess I'll have that debate with myself for several months since this has only just been started.I'm probably over-thinking all this stuff, but while I have done a lot of beers, this is my first cyser, so I keep finding things I'm not sure of.How long should this be left in the primary? I was thinking of about 3 weeks, but then wondered if that was long enough to get everything out of the raisins. Is it good or bad to leave it on the lees? My plan would be to secondary for 3 months, bottle and then hide the bottles; see if I can at least get to the 6 month mark without opening one. The primary is a plastic fermenter, the secondary will be glass.

[Calder]

Thanks for all the useful advice. All noted. I don't see this lasting anywhere near 2 years.I will leave it where it is untill sometime January and then transfer to glass. I'll leave it there as long as I can; until I need the fermenters, bottle and try not to touch until next Thanksgiving. I have plenty to drink around, but it's going to be tough to leave the first Cyser I've made for a year without making a decent dent in it.

[Calder]

It's now 25 days since I started this. It is still going (around 1 bubble per minute). It's sitting on a concrete floor, probably around 64 F. The yeast is supposed to be good down to aroundc 40 F. I did not add any nutrient. For reference, as noted in a previous post, the recipe was:4.5 gallons cider5 lbs Honey24 ozs chopped raisinsPacMan yeast slurryOG 1.090The fermenter is opaque, but I can clearly see lots of bubbles and airpockets coming up through the raisins on the top of the liquid.How long should I expect to see signs of fermentation? I know it could just be out-gassing CO2, but I suspect it is still active. Should I take a gravity measurement? I have not disturbed the fermenter since pitching yeast, it has just been sitting quietly in the corner.

[Calder]

I'll take a reading this evening. I'd like to see what it tastes like anyway.How far should I expect this to go down to. I'm thinking the yeast should be able to take it down to 1.000.If it's above 1.010 I'll rouse the yeast a little. It's a plastic fermenter, so just lifting it and setting it back down should be enough to disturb the yeast. I'll be transferring it to glass and getting it off the raisins for long-term storage sometime in January.

[Calder]

I checked it this evening, 1.000 and still going slowly. A little cloudy and tasted great. It's going to be tough to keep this for a long time. Althought it was 1.000 it still tasted sweetish.

[Calder]

Honey, Cider and Raisins. It's now 37 days (5 weeks) since I started this. Last time I checked (2 weeks ago) it had reached final gravity (or close to it at 1.000). Is it too soon to rack? I am looking to use the fermenter, but can leave it if necessary and find something else.Stupid question, but never done this before. When I finally rack off the lees and from the raisins, I am assuming the raisins will have absorbed a lot of the good cyser. Is there any way of getting that back or is it just best left alone and being tossed? I'm assuming it's just lost volume and there is nothing you can do to get it back.

[EWW]

Honey, Cider and Raisins. It's now 37 days (5 weeks) since I started this. Last time I checked (2 weeks ago) it had reached final gravity (or close to it at 1.000). Is it too soon to rack? I am looking to use the fermenter, but can leave it if necessary and find something else.Stupid question, but never done this before. When I finally rack off the lees and from the raisins, I am assuming the raisins will have absorbed a lot of the good cyser. Is there any way of getting that back or is it just best left alone and being tossed? I'm assuming it's just lost volume and there is nothing you can do to get it back.

I'd leave the fermenter for at least another monthonce I rinsed the lees off the raisins after transfer and made raisin bread. Tasty.