69 replies to this topic

[Humperdink]

The carapils doesn't concern me as far as flavor contribution, I'm just saying I wouldn't use it. That's why we brew are own we can make what we want. I'm not overly concerned about the black as in such a small amount it won't add much as far as flavor contribution, I just tend to make my alts without worrying about the color. My alts tend to look more like Pinkus Muenster Alt which is very light in color. SRM for mine is usually between 8 and 10.

Mine tend to be in that range as well, though sometimes i will add some carafa to add some color.

[Malzig]

so you are concerned about some roastiness, okay. what's the reasoning on the carapils? You'll notice earlier in this thread mtn and I discussed that a little bit and it made sense to me.

There's a lot of range in this style, from nearly all Pilsner to nearly all Munich, but I don't think the Carapils quite fits. You want some body, but you're going for a malty but dry finish and already fighting the Munich, CaraMunich and Aromatic. I play pretty fast and loose with the color, too, ever since I found out that Alt breweries often use Sinimar to hit color, but I do like a very, very subtle hint of roast in the distant background.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

There's a lot of range in this style, from nearly all Pilsner to nearly all Munich, but I don't think the Carapils quite fits. You want some body, but you're going for a malty but dry finish and already fighting the Munich, CaraMunich and Aromatic. I play pretty fast and loose with the color, too, ever since I found out that Alt breweries often use Sinimar to hit color, but I do like a very, very subtle hint of roast in the distant background.

alright - carapils - SEE YA! I replaced the 0.5lb with more munich (mmmm - munich). so question - if you had to choose between Halertau (not MF) and Styrian Goldings for a flavor (30min) addition here - what would you go with?

[cavman]

alright - carapils - SEE YA! I replaced the 0.5lb with more munich (mmmm - munich). so question - if you had to choose between Halertau (not MF) and Styrian Goldings for a flavor (30min) addition here - what would you go with?

Halertau

[MyaCullen]

Halertau

absulutely sidejack* what does the board think of Perle in an Alt?

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

absulutely sidejack* what does the board think of Perle in an Alt?

I've heard it's not a bad option. 2nd hand info so take it for what it's worth

[cavman]

absulutely sidejack* what does the board think of Perle in an Alt?

Perle would be fine.

[Malzig]

what does the board think of Perle in an Alt?

I've used it and liked it. It's better for bittering than flavor in this style, I feel.

[MyaCullen]

I've used it and liked it. It's better for bittering than flavor in this style, I feel.

not much flavor hopping necessary at all in this style usually, just good clean malty bitter ale

[Malzig]

not much flavor hopping necessary at all in this style usually, just good clean malty bitter ale

It's not arguable that there are Alts that don't have flavor hops, but hop flavor is certainly a characteristic in at least one of the best. Anyway, I was just saying that I found Perle to work better in an Alt that has just bittering or when used as just bittering. I decided that I preferred a spicier hop for flavor in an Alt.

[MyaCullen]

It's not arguable that there are Alts that don't have flavor hops, but hop flavor is certainly a characteristic in at least one of the best. Anyway, I was just saying that I found Perle to work better in an Alt that has just bittering or when used as just bittering. I decided that I preferred a spicier hop for flavor in an Alt.

It's all good I would probably use a hallertauer derivative of some sort myself, at 30 or 20 minutes, just because, well , I like hops, a lot

[Malzig]

I would probably use a hallertauer derivative of some sort myself, at 30 or 20 minutes, just because, well , I like hops, a lot

Yeah, 20-30 minutes seems to work well, with a light touch, as does FWH only. I think Mt Hood is a good one, if you want a domestic hop.

[MtnBrewer]

I think the Carapils is important in this style since with a such low temp mash it won't have enough body otherwise. Unless you do a protein rest.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

I think the Carapils is important in this style since with a such low temp mash it won't have enough body otherwise. Unless you do a protein rest.

the voices are telling me different things! so the question is - were people poo pooing the carapils thinking that I was doing something other than a single infusion mash with no steps?

[cavman]

the voices are telling me different things! so the question is - were people poo pooing the carapils thinking that I was doing something other than a single infusion mash with no steps?

Nope just have a different opinion than Mtn that's all.

[Malzig]

Cara, or Crystal can work but can also defeat the dry result you want.

This is how I feel. If you can add 0.325# CaraMunich and 0.5# CaraPils and get a dry tasting beer, then go for it, but I'd have difficulty getting there. I'm sure it will make a great beer, though. The BJCP says an FG of 1.010-1.015, but I'm trying to make sure it doesn't stop over 1.012 and I shoot for 1.010. I feel that medium body is fine and sweetness is not, so consider the results you get in your brewery. Maybe that's the source of the differing opinion. I don't really use 1056 much, and I've never used it in an Alt, but it's a pretty aggressive fermenter, so that should help.

I do use a step mash from 148F to 158F, specifically because I was having trouble getting my Alt dry-tasting enough. That schedule leaves some body while cutting down on sweetness, in my hands. Maybe the right amount of CaraPils would get you to the same place...

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

This is how I feel. If you can add 0.325# CaraMunich and 0.5# CaraPils and get a dry tasting beer, then go for it, but I'd have difficulty getting there. I'm sure it will make a great beer, though. The BJCP says an FG of 1.010-1.015, but I'm trying to make sure it doesn't stop over 1.012 and I shoot for 1.010. I feel that medium body is fine and sweetness is not, so consider the results you get in your brewery. Maybe that's the source of the differing opinion. I don't really use 1056 much, and I've never used it in an Alt, but it's a pretty aggressive fermenter, so that should help.

I do use a step mash from 148F to 158F, specifically because I was having trouble getting my Alt dry-tasting enough. That schedule leaves some body while cutting down on sweetness, in my hands. Maybe the right amount of CaraPils would get you to the same place...

I'm going to split the diff since I don't yet have an opinion on how I'd like this. So I'll lower the carapils to 1/4lb and have at it!

[MtnBrewer]

Cop out! :unsure:I agree with DJ that crystal malts will help the body but will also prevent it from being dry so be real careful with it. Dextrin malt however will add body but not sweetness. The best way to do it is with a high-temperature protein rest (131°F-ish). That will break down the large proteins into smaller ones, which adds body and head retention. However if you can't do a protein rest, adding dextrin malt is an OK alternative although it's sort of cheating.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

Cop out! I agree with DJ that crystal malts will help the body but will also prevent it from being dry so be real careful with it. Dextrin malt however will add body but not sweetness. The best way to do it is with a high-temperature protein rest (131°F-ish). That will break down the large proteins into smaller ones, which adds body and head retention. However if you can't do a protein rest, adding dextrin malt is an OK alternative although it's sort of cheating.

that's why I kept the crystal pretty low (6oz). With these 2 German beers coming up for me (maibock and alt) it's funny all of a sudden I'm actually considering doing what I never thought I would do - multi-step mashes either through decoction or infusion. If I had a heatable mash tun this wouldn't be much of an issue so I'm seeing the limitations of the cooler.

[MtnBrewer]

You probably could do a decent infusion if you wanted to. Since you want the protein rest in the high range and you're mashing low, you'd only need to raise the temperature 16-18°. If you start fairly thick, you can hit that no problem.