30 replies to this topic

[CaptRon]

maybe your boil isnt vigorous enough to get a really get the proteins to drop out.

Hhhmmmm.. I wonder if that is my problem. The way that I do my boil is that I bring it up to boil, then drop the heat down to just maintain a rolling boil. I do this because I guess I fear scorching it or burning the wort. Never been one to cook things on high all the time. :rolf:So, maybe I need to boil it more aggressively??

[Big Nake]

I have always heard that wimpy boils can lead to cloudy beer. It's one of the reasons I didn't mind making the switch from on-the-stove boiling to propane burner in the garage. You can get the wort up to temp quicker and maintain a good, vigorous boil. Why wimpy boils lead to cloudiness, I do not know... but I do try to boil vigorously on each batch. Cheers.

[ANUSTART]

3. not vorlaufing enough

I don't see how this would make a difference. Isnt the reason for doing a vorlauf to keep the grain bits from getting into the kettle? I didnt think it was filtering out proteins. I could be wrong though.

[Stuster]

I was under the impression that that was an old-brewer's tale. I thought I remembered a study that showed that a beer fermented on the break was indistinguishable from the same beer separated from the break. No?

I think there's a difference between cold break and hot break. Fermenting with cold break being fine, hot break possibly being harmful. However, since so many people are saying they do it that way and get clear beer it can't be so much of an issue at the homebrew scale. Fatman, what is your fermentation schedule? What yeasts have you been using?

[Malzig]

Fermenting with cold break being fine, hot break possibly being harmful.

Yeah, possibly. I've read about the pro studies showing decreased stability and increased chill haze when beers are fermented on cold or hot trub, and the yeast nutrition benefits, lower oxygen requirements and more rapid fermentation associated with leaving some hot or cold break in the fermentor. On the other hand, I've read of homebrewers doing split batches on or off the trub and finding little-to-no difference in the final product or even preferring the batches fermented on the trub.As a result I remove as much break as is convenient, but don't sweat it too much as long as my beer tastes great and drops reasonably clear most of the time. I probably have a little chill haze in most of my beers right after fermentation, but it drops clear during cold conditioning.The OP said it wasn't chill haze, though, so I'm not sure how much any of that matters.

[davelew]

I was thinking of two issues with the vorlauf, neither having to do with proteins.First, grain in the boil can lead to tannin extraction, and tannins can cause haze all on their own.Second, some grain bits can include starches. There are aften some starches that never gelatinized and thus were never available to the amylase enzymes. If these starches get into the BK, they can then gelatinize at boiling temperatures and lead to starch haze.

I don't see how this would make a difference. Isnt the reason for doing a vorlauf to keep the grain bits from getting into the kettle? I didnt think it was filtering out proteins. I could be wrong though.

[Fatman]

Wow, computer goes down for a day or so and the thread explodes! I'll try and provide as much info as I can.I almost always keg.I would be surprised if it's the boil vigor - I go full throttle on the Bajou Classic, and I boil so hard I lose 2.2 gal/hr to evaporation. I then get a nice fast chill with the CFC (when I remember to turn on the hose)I will actually start to use the pH strips I bought when I went all-grain last year. Conversion is another set of strips, right?What is this recirculating you speak of?Cloudyness happens on just about every all-grain I brew - pale ale, maibock, bitter, IPA. Due to a nasty work schedule, I rarely get a beer into secondary or then into the keg in less than 2-3 weeks per transfer. Maybe it's all the moving about prior to each transfer?

[Malzig]

I will actually start to use the pH strips I bought when I went all-grain last year. Conversion is another set of strips, right?What is this recirculating you speak of?

pH has a couple effects on clarity, so controlling that might help.Conversion is measured by an iodine test, not strips.By recirculating, they mean vorlaufing, i.e., recirculating wort from the bottom to the top of the mash tun until the particles are removed before collecting your runnings.

[orudis]

What is this recirculating you speak of?

I am going to guess that "there's your answer right there." recirc=vorlauf

[davelew]

recirc=vorlauf

vorlauf = drain the first quart or so from the mash into a big pyrex measuring cup, then dump that back on top of the mash. Basically, don't drain into the boil kettle until the runoff is clear.

[Stout_fan]

Another brewer I know has a system similar to mine.And although the beer was OK, it was always a touch cloudy.He recently went from infusion (like I do) to a full recirculate HERMS.His wort is now crystal clear. So are his beers.So yes, it is residual tannins / starches.