8 replies to this topic

[Yeasty Boy]

https://www.brewingt...sue1.2/fix.htmlHere's some info about diacetyl.We all have a few various ways to go about it, maybe we could share for the general viewer.I don't do enough lagers to have confidence in my yeast/process as far as diacetyl formation goes, so I always do one.My MO is to pitch a good starter (1g stirred, fermented, chilled, decanted) at 50° on the money and hold it there for abotu a week before checking the gravity. When I'm somewhere around 2/3 finished (OG - TG * .33 + TG) I'll pull it out of the fridge and give it a day to come up to ambient basement temp (~60° usually) then bring it upstairs to achieve about 65-68° for a full two days or until TG is reached. Then back in the fridge for a day, then start dropping the temp until I hit about 38°, rack to secondary and lager at whatever temp (colder/longer for big beers.)Do you do something different?

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

https://www.brewingt...sue1.2/fix.htmlHere's some info about diacetyl.We all have a few various ways to go about it, maybe we could share for the general viewer.I don't do enough lagers to have confidence in my yeast/process as far as diacetyl formation goes, so I always do one.My MO is to pitch a good starter (1g stirred, fermented, chilled, decanted) at 50° on the money and hold it there for abotu a week before checking the gravity. When I'm somewhere around 2/3 finished (OG - TG * .33 + TG) I'll pull it out of the fridge and give it a day to come up to ambient basement temp (~60° usually) then bring it upstairs to achieve about 65-68° for a full two days or until TG is reached. Then back in the fridge for a day, then start dropping the temp until I hit about 38°, rack to secondary and lager at whatever temp (colder/longer for big beers.)Do you do something different?

That's more or less what I tried to do on my one lager I've ever fermented. I'll probably post results in the coming months when you've long forgotten this thread

[Lagerdemain]

As with so many other aspects of lager beer brewing, doing diacetyl rests is an overblown and generally unnecessary step. I've brewed *many* lager beers, and have never experienced a trace of diacetyl in any of them. Ferment slow and cold (about 45 degrees), and you will likely never, ever run into any issues either. I've read Fix's treatise on the subject, and my belief is that he was using much poorer quality malts than we have available to us today.For the record, the W-308 yeast he cites (Wissenschaftliche Station #308) is the yeast I use for all of my Bavarian lagers (about 80% of what I brew), and, to repeat myself, I've never experienced a trace of diacetyl in any of my beers.

[NWPines]

I don't do a d-rest. I pitch a large quantity of healthy yeast at about 44F and let it warm up to 48F over a couple days and then hold there until its done fermenting (usually 3-4 weeks or so). I think the key is to limit diacetyl production in the first place, which pitching and fermenting in the 40s will do.I know a lot of brewers pitch in the 60s and then cool down to 50 or so once fermentation is under way. In that case, diacetyl production is much greater and a d-rest is probably a good idea.

[Lagerdemain]

I know a lot of brewers pitch in the 60s and then cool down to 50 or so once fermentation is under way. In that case, diacetyl production is much greater and a d-rest is probably a good idea.

I think that's a very valid point, and if I'm not mistaken this practice was encouraged by Chris White. I think this is a terrible practice and not only may produce diacetyl but also unwanted esters.

[Yeasty Boy]

I with you on the cooler ferm temps. 45 is a fair amount colder than I'm used to, but I try for 72-75% AA, which the 50° and subsequent d-rest helps. I'm getting hooked on this Hellebock strain, so maybe continued use will warrant some experimentation. I honestly don't even feel it's that much of a "step" in terms of extra trouble.

[boo boo]

I think that's a very valid point, and if I'm not mistaken this practice was encouraged by Chris White. I think this is a terrible practice and not only may produce diacetyl but also unwanted esters.

I agree.I do, however, still do a diacetyl rest as I feel it don't hurt to do one anyway. The critical point of lager fermentingis, I believe, at the beginning of fermentation when as was already mentioned, esters and diacetyl can be reducedor prevented by proper fermenting temps. Bringing up the temps to finish getting the final few available points outof my brew seems good.

[Jimmy James]

I think that's a very valid point, and if I'm not mistaken this practice was encouraged by Chris White. I think this is a terrible practice and not only may produce diacetyl but also unwanted esters.

My assumption would be that White would have encouraged this only if you needed some yeast growth. If you just pitch a single vial/pack into 5 gallons of wort it may help attenuation if you start a little warmer. Of course the best practice is the pitch/ferment cold strategy we all seem to be using which requires a starter or cake/slurry in most cases to get full attenuation. At least that's been my experience. I also never detect diacetyl and I've used a few lager strains. I agree it's an overblown thing and maybe was more of a problem in the past.

[Stout_fan]

I don't do a d-rest. I pitch a large quantity of healthy yeast at about 44F and let it warm up to 48F over a couple days and then hold there until its done fermenting (usually 3-4 weeks or so). I think the key is to limit diacetyl production in the first place, which pitching and fermenting in the 40s will do.I know a lot of brewers pitch in the 60s and then cool down to 50 or so once fermentation is under way. In that case, diacetyl production is much greater and a d-rest is probably a good idea.

Pretty much what I've done on my last lager.see my thread on this topic.What got me started down this approach was hearing Dan Gordon's approach to using Classical German Lagering techniques at Gordon Biersch.