18 replies to this topic

[Big Nake]

So I brewed my Aviator's English Ale 2 weeks ago and I would like to reuse this White Labs 023 Burton Ale yeast. But being the noble-hop, lager-loving guy that I am, I find myself low on the right hops. I do have an ounce of Kent but the rest of my hops consist mostly of Tettnanger, Hallertau, Tradition, Hersbrucker, Magnum and such. I do happen to have 2 ounces of Vanguard pellets @ 4.4% along with an ounce of Sterlings at 6%. I was thinking of mixing these hops with the Kents and making an Ordinary/Best bitter with Maris Otter, some British Crystal 55°L and some torrified wheat & flaked barley. I could make a special trip to the LHBS for Target, Styrian Goldings, Phoenix, Fuggle or more Kent but... you know. What do you think of an English Bitter with Vanguard, Sterling and Kent?

[MtnBrewer]

Some British breweries mix in some nobles in their bitters so I think that's a legit way to go. If I were going to do it, I probably wouldn't use Sterling though. I like Sterling a lot but it's kind of assertive; has a very distinctive flavor. I would use Magnum for bittering and then Tettnanger for the late additions. I'd save the EKG for dry hop or a flameout addition. Vanguard would be fine too instead of Tett.

[Big Nake]

Some British breweries mix in some nobles in their bitters so I think that's a legit way to go.

A-ha, this I didn't know. So maybe something like this would be reasonable...Burton Best Bitter7¼ bs Maris Otter8 oz British Crystal 55°L4 oz Torrified Wheat4 oz Flaked Barley (mash temp 151-152°)½ oz German Magnum 14.8% for 601 oz Vanguard 4.4% for 151 oz US Kent Goldings 4.5% for 1White Labs 023 Burton Ale yeastOG: 1.046, FG: 1.012, IBU: 43, SRM: 7, ABV: 4.4%If the bittering addition seems too high (7.4 AAU), it could always be adjusted too. Sound like a good English Bitter? Cheers.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

I would have suggested the magnum as well as I actually use this on purpose for a lot of beers where I don't think the 60min addition has a big impact (I never have to use a lot so I always have plenty on hand). I think what you've posted looks good.

[MtnBrewer]

Yep, I think that's very reasonable.Tell me a little bit about Vanguard. I know that it's a mild, lager-ish type of hop. What is it derived from and what does it most closely resemble? When I can't find true nobles, I often turn to the domestic derivatives and have had very good luck with them. For example, I have used Santiam instead of Tett and I like it much better than domestic Tettnang.

[Big Nake]

I probably should've thought of the Magnum as a bittering option because they're so clean & versatile. I have used Vanguard in various pale ales and red ales and they seem pretty neutral as well. I will add a little gypsum to the mash to boost my low calcium number and I envision the 023 doing some very nice stuff for this beer! I plan to make it one day this week. Cheers.

[Big Nake]

Yep, I think that's very reasonable.Tell me a little bit about Vanguard. I know that it's a mild, lager-ish type of hop. What is it derived from and what does it most closely resemble? When I can't find true nobles, I often turn to the domestic derivatives and have had very good luck with them. For example, I have used Santiam instead of Tett and I like it much better than domestic Tettnang.

Vanguard is derived from Hallertau mother and and an "unnamed" father. Here is more... Vanguard is a US hop variety that came about in 1982 with breeding between a Hallertau mother and unnamed father. Like its parentage, Vanguard is somewhat noble and mild in aroma. At an average of 5.5 to 6% AA, Vanguard is great as an aroma addition in any German style beer (Munich Helles, Kolsch, Hefeweizen, Alt.) It's US parentage lends Vanguard an ever-so-slight herbal citrus that is quite restrained, but perfect for hybrid styles like American Wheat. Because of its US breeding and relatively higher Alpha compared to it parent Hallertau, Vanguard is a great substitute and money-saver both due to its availability and Alpha quantity. I have used it a few times and it seems very much in line with my tastebuds. Cheers!

[MyaCullen]

I would consider the Tettnanger IF it is US not german, I like the US Tett in Bitters and Browns myself

[VolFan]

I probably should've thought of the Magnum as a bittering option because they're so clean & versatile.

Very versatile. Over the past couple years Magnum has become my hop of choice for bittering. I just love it.

[Malzig]

Some British breweries mix in some nobles in their bitters so I think that's a legit way to go.

A-ha, this I didn't know.

Coniston brewery makes a pretty widely available and excellent Bitter called Bluebird XB with Challenger bittering and Mt Hood finishing (maybe some Challenger in the middle, too).

[cavman]

Coniston brewery makes a pretty widely available and excellent Bitter called Bluebird XB with Challenger bittering and Mt Hood finishing (maybe some Challenger in the middle, too).

A lot of people don't like the XB(I do) I have brewed a clone using amarillo with challenger instead of MT. Hood that is excellent.

[Big Nake]

If I had some Mt. Hood, I would absolutely use it. I had 3 or 4 ounces but used it all in some Amber Lagers and some MLPA. I overlooked an ounce of Super Styrians that I have in my hop freezer and they are 7%. I had a few ounces of these and used them in some unremarkable beers. The beers weren't unremarkable because of these hops necessarily, but I don't remember anything good standing out about these hops. They could be employed here somehow, but I think the latest posting of the recipe would be the best option. Cheers guys & thanks for the feedback.

[drewseslu]

US Tett is a Fuggle, not a true Tett, at all.

[MyaCullen]

US Tett is a Fuggle, not a true Tett, at all.

:smilielol:yep,a clone of the Swiss tett IIRC, I actually like them in UK styles plenty fine, I bet DJ hates them though

[VolFan]

:cheers:yep,a clone of the Swiss tett IIRC, I actually like them in UK styles plenty fine, I bet DJ hates them though

Fuggles & Norther Brewer.

[Big Nake]

Ken my suggestion is skip the vanguard altogether. I think it would be out of place in an english bitter. My suggestion would be: go with Magnum for the bulk of you bitterness and go with the 1oz EKG for your finishing hops. If it were me thats what I'd do in your spot.

That's a thought. Let me run it through a calculator and see what 7.4 AAU of Magnum for 60 and 1 oz of Kent for 1 minute looks like. The other option could be to mix the Vanguard & Kents together for the 15 and 1 minute additions. But I have made a few nice English beers that just had a 60 and a 1 (or a 60 and a 5) and they were quite pleasant. Thanks for the guidance guys & cheers to you!Ps. If the week goes properly, I plan to make this beer on Thursday morning.

[Big Nake]

Yeah, that looks pretty nice, Thanks Matt.Burton Best Bitter7¼ lbs Maris Otter8 oz British Crystal 55L4 oz Torrified Wheat4 oz Flaked Barley½ oz Magnum 14.8% for 601 oz Kent 4.5% for 5White Labs 023 BurtonOG: 1.046, FG: 1.012, IBU: 37, SRM: 7, ABV: 4.4%

[MtnBrewer]

US Tett is a Fuggle, not a true Tett, at all.

How about that? https://www.freshops...s#usda_id_21197