33 replies to this topic

[GaryNConcord]

I know the mfg says don't worry about the foam remaining in a disinfected carboy but I've never felt good pouring wort on top of it. I recently discovered a way to get rid of it. I use ethyl alcohol (Diesel, Everclear etc.) cut to 50% strength as a general disinfectant to wipe down stuff. If you pour about an ounce of it into a carboy full of foam and swirl it around it apparently kills the surface tension of the bubbles. All the foam turns to liquid that you can pour out.

[MtnBrewer]

Or you could use SaniClean...just sayin'.

[chuck_d]

There's no reason to bother yourself with extra work. The DDBSA breaks down into yeast nutrient and phosphoric acid is actually an ingredient in Coca-Cola. If you have an application that requires non-foaming sanitizer, just grab SaniClean like Mtn said.

[EWW]

I know the mfg says don't worry about the foam remaining in a disinfected carboy but I've never felt good pouring wort on top of it. I recently discovered a way to get rid of it. I use ethyl alcohol (Diesel, Everclear etc.) cut to 50% strength as a general disinfectant to wipe down stuff. If you pour about an ounce of it into a carboy full of foam and swirl it around it apparently kills the surface tension of the bubbles. All the foam turns to liquid that you can pour out.

Although I'm sure this works, I'm a bit skeptical of this as solid practice. Everclear is what like 190 proof - so95% ethanol. Cut in half that's ~47.5% ethanol. Considering that ethanol is very volatile I think some of the alcohol would evaporate when exposed to the atmosphere. So considering this are you in the end creating more of a problem re: possible contamination then the initial risk of the residual acid based sanitize that would be left in the fermentor? Seems like a solution looking for a problem to me.

[LibraAle]

I remember reading about and being impressed by some of the tests they did to establish that the foam wouldn't affect the taste of beer. If I remember correctly, they would sanitize glasses and then pour beer into it, and no one could distinguish between a glass that had had foam in it and one that hadn't. In short, even if you are doing no harm, I don't think you're doing any good either, and you're at least wasting a little time and a little booze.

[chuck_d]

Good point ewanzel, I think alcohol needs to be around 70% for effective sanitization.

[GaryNConcord]

Although I'm sure this works, I'm a bit skeptical of this as solid practice. Everclear is what like 190 proof - so95% ethanol. Cut in half that's ~47.5% ethanol. Considering that ethanol is very volatile I think some of the alcohol would evaporate when exposed to the atmosphere. So considering this are you in the end creating more of a problem re: possible contamination then the initial risk of the residual acid based sanitize that would be left in the fermentor? Seems like a solution looking for a problem to me.

You're right. Everclear and the others are actually 95% alcohol. Its impossible to distill off that last 5% of water from it during manufacturing. So cutting it in half is not 50%. I used 50% as an approximation for purposes of what I was saying here. 45% would probably been a more reasonable approximation.Ethanol is not going to be that volatile. Otherwise, all your drinks would be nonalcoholic by the time you finished them. When I mix a pint of this stuff, I keep it tightly capped when not using it. As far as alcohol having to be 70% to be effective, I'd be interested in seeing some more info. I don't use it a a primary sterilizer, hence the star-san. But I do use it for such items as wiping off a yeast pouch before I tear it open. As far as whether I'm creating a problem, I'd say the chances are very unlikely. I do take your point about doing something that isn't really necessary. Call this one a personal quirk, that I just like it better not having the foam. :-)

[Steve Gruver]

I've always had the theory..."Don't fear the foam!"

[dagomike]

Lets pretend for a moment that the foam is something to fear. Getting rid of the surface tension only keeps the foam from forming, but the surfactant is still there.

[onthekeg]

You're right. Everclear and the others are actually 95% alcohol. Its impossible to distill off that last 5% of water from it during manufacturing. So cutting it in half is not 50%. I used 50% as an approximation for purposes of what I was saying here. 45% would probably been a more reasonable approximation. As far as alcohol having to be 70% to be effective, I'd be interested in seeing some more info. I don't use it a a primary sterilizer, hence the star-san. But I do use it for such items as wiping off a yeast pouch before I tear it open.

Gary, you are correct. When anhydrous alcohol is made, it is roughly 90-95% off the still and into molecular sieve beds for the balance of the dehydration. You don't distill the last 5%.

[GaryNConcord]

Lets pretend for a moment that the foam is something to fear. Getting rid of the surface tension only keeps the foam from forming, but the surfactant is still there.

Except that most of it pours out.

[GaryNConcord]

I'm getting my ass handed to me on this one aren't I?

[dagomike]

Except that most of it pours out.

Define "most."

[GaryNConcord]

Define "most."

Its greater than some.

[japh]

Great idea, but I'm going to just pour on the foam. The foam makes me feel good, as it says "look at me, I'm Star San foam, you know I'm sanitized"

[dagomike]

Its greater than some.

I'd say the foam is already not much. My point is, it's all relative and you're worrying about it because you can see it. Either way, I don't think the foam comprises much liquid anyway.

[zymot]

I look at it this way.I put 1 ounce of StarSan in 5 gallons, or 640 ounces.1/640 = 0.156% (less than 1 %). So at "full strength", your StarSan solution is 99.844% water and 0.156% StarSan.When you pour it out of the craboy, or bucket, you get almost all the 5 gallons of back. The StarSan left behind is in the form of foam, that foam is what? I will guess 97% air and 3% solution. Now you have 3% or your 0.156% left in your bucket.When you rack on top of the foam and push the foam out, you get rid of what? I guess 50% of the foam. So 50% of 3% of 0.156% = 0.00234%.Obviously my numbers are speculation and guesses. But the idea is valid. Of that foam left behind in your carboy, there ain't much left of your 1 ounce of StarSan.It looks intimidating. I would speculate that your malt contributes much more phosphoric and other chemical stuff to your beer than the residual StarSan does.zymot

[HarvInSTL]

Costs twice as much.

Sounds like you need to shop somewhere else. Here we get 1 gallon Star-San for $42.50/gallon. 1 gallon of Sani-Clean is $38.50. So at least here in St. Louis it is the opposite. I'm sure Drew could bring some back the next time to KC.