14 replies to this topic

[Genesee Ted]

In another thread a few of us were discussing the Torpedo/Randall/Hopback tech that seems to be all the rage these days with the pros as well as possible ideas for homemade versions. Well, hopefully we can work together to design some over-the-top hop transducer gizmo that will be of immense use to us homebrewing hopheads. One issue that was brought up before was the ability for us to evacuate O2 from whatever we are pushing the beer through. After thinking about this, at first I thought of simply purging the vessel with CO2, but I am not too sure how well this would work in a whole hop environment, what with all the nooks and crannies in our little floral friends. Another idea could be to figure out some way to create a vaccuum and then refill the space with CO2. I am not sure how to accomplish this with our typical HB resources. My next thought was to use water. If the hop filled chamber could be filled with cold water (boiled or sanitized of course), this should certainly purge any gas in there. Our only issue would be whatever hop character would be dissolved in the water, but using really cold water should minimize hop character transfer. The water could then be pushed off before the beer, much like old school racking canes. My grand idea is to pack a corny keg with hops and attach some sort of false bottom/filter (maybe stainless scrubby) on the out dip tube to avoid whole hops plugging it up. Then you use it just before packaging in the following Randall-like manner: -Keg beer flat (to minimize foaming) but make sure the keg is purged with CO2 -Push beer through corny filled with hops with CO2-Collect hopped beer into another corny (purged with CO2) through out side ball lock (to minimize splashing/excessive foaming)-Carb beer in keg for dispensing or repackaging with Beergun/CPFNow of course I realize that a corny full of hops is a lot, but perhaps something smaller could be used. I like the idea of a corny because I already have them and they have all the fittings. Does anyone else have anything? Perhaps this is a good reason to buy a 2 or 3 gal corny? I figure you could push 20 gal thru all those hops and be just peachy on over the top hop character. Critiques, other ideas, ridicule?

[Mynameisluka]

i saw somebody make one of these one time using a whole house water filter body that you can get from lowes.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

i saw somebody make one of these one time using a whole house water filter body that you can get from lowes.

So do you push the beer through the water filter just before serving? If yes I'd think it would just require some low pressure.

[BrewerGeorge]

So do you push the beer through the water filter just before serving? If yes I'd think it would just require some low pressure.

Just the filter housing. You take the actual filter out and replace it with luscious hops.

[Genesee Ted]

I basically want to make a Randall kinda thing that I can bottle beer behind. Or keg.

[BrewerGeorge]

I basically want to make a Randall kinda thing that I can bottle beer behind. Or keg.

IMO, the whole appeal of a Randall is that you drink it immediately and get absolute absolute maximum hoppiness at the point of serving. If you want to bottle or keg afterward, you might as well just dry hop.

[chuck_d]

My grand idea is to pack a corny keg with hops and attach some sort of false bottom/filter (maybe stainless scrubby) on the out dip tube to avoid whole hops plugging it up. [/

I use this for dry hopping in kegs.But I think the filter housing is what I would use if I wanted to push beer through hops at any stage of the process, though perhaps the housing couldn't take the heat if I wanted to put it inline pre-chiller. In which case I would think that a small corny, like the 2.5 gallon with a sure screen on it might work.

[Genesee Ted]

IMO, the whole appeal of a Randall is that you drink it immediately and get absolute absolute maximum hoppiness at the point of serving. If you want to bottle or keg afterward, you might as well just dry hop.

This is the idea. To take that freshness and be able to package it. Dry hopping only goes so far. I want to go beyond that. Way extreme. Is this not the idea with the Torpedo? To capture the ultimate fresh hop flavor, but to be able to pour it for a bit more than a few hours.

[lowendfrequency]

Now don't hate me (Basser) but I don't consider Torpedo to be a very hoppy beer at all. Especially the aroma. Citra is an intense hop, I'm somewhat amazed that it is so subdued in that beer. Sierra Nevada, while making damn fine beer, still brews for a larger audience than most other breweries. They'd never introduce a hop bomb of a beer into their year-round lineup. I guess my point is, if your goal is to make a beer comparable to Torpedo, you are overkilling by trying to replicate the entire process. [disclaimer: I LOVE Torpedo and have some in the fridge right now]Now, let's discuss the actual act of "torpedo-ing". What is the purpose? We all seem to want to believe that it's some magical process that makes your beer taste hoppier and fresher. It is not. The sole purpose of a torpedo style system is to achieve the results of dry hopping in less time, with less hops. Bigger breweries like SN can't afford the time to have perfectly drinkable beer sitting around in tanks waiting to dry hop. The torpedo is a device of efficiency. It saves time and money. Pretty ingenious in my opinion. Now the Randall is a difference beast. The purpose of the Randall is freshness and it does a decent job at it. However, as homebrewers, we have the option of dry hopping in the keg which achieves very similar results and without the excessive foam (Randalls cannot pour directly into a glass). I consider the Randall to be a good idea that has evolved into more of a publicity stunt than a practical application. My intention is not to rain on everyones parade, but to highlight what the real goal of these techniques are. That being said, I feel that there is still room for improvement and improvisation with these concepts. We all know that fresh hop character comes from freshly hopped beer. There is no way around that. We also know that when it comes to a chemical reaction like the dissolution of hop oils and the isomerization of alpha acids is a chemical reaction influenced by time, temperature and direct contact. We obviously don't want to increase the temperature on finished beer, so we are left with the factors of time and contact. What we need is to increase the amount of contact between the hops and beer while reducing the time needed for these reactions to take place. This is exactly what's being achieved in a Torpedo or Randall. These techniques achieve their results by moving the beer over the hops. Beer flows while the hops are stationary. I feel that in a homebrewery, it would be more practical to move the hops through the beer instead. Beer will be stationary in a keg, while the hops are the moving parts. Imagine a keg with a hop screen, free floating hops and an agitator to get them moving. The hop screen could even be the agitator itself. Think of a french press, except the beans are at the top and the coffee pours from the bottom. Want more fresh hop character? Give it a few presses and get those suckers into contact with beer. Starting to get a bit astringent? Pull the plunger and lift the hops up and out of the beer so you can halt the process. Necessity is the mother of invention, and I NEED MOAR HOPS!!!

[Genesee Ted]

I love "teh freshpress" concept... Now engineering...

[davelew]

I love "teh freshpress" concept... Now engineering...

Could you combine a Randall with a Burton Union? Basically, use the pressure from the evolved CO2 to pump the beer over some hops, over and over again.

[MyaCullen]

Could you combine a Randall with a Burton Union? Basically, use the pressure from the evolved CO2 to pump the beer over some hops, over and over again.

hmm?

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

These techniques achieve their results by moving the beer over the hops. Beer flows while the hops are stationary. I feel that in a homebrewery, it would be more practical to move the hops through the beer instead. Beer will be stationary in a keg, while the hops are the moving parts. Imagine a keg with a hop screen, free floating hops and an agitator to get them moving. The hop screen could even be the agitator itself. Think of a french press, except the beans are at the top and the coffee pours from the bottom. Want more fresh hop character? Give it a few presses and get those suckers into contact with beer. Starting to get a bit astringent? Pull the plunger and lift the hops up and out of the beer so you can halt the process. Necessity is the mother of invention, and I NEED MOAR HOPS!!!

sounds like it would be tough to get a good seal with the plunger and the lid on the keg. I'm also thinking about all of the sediment I would kick up doing this but I guess even that would go away after enough pints.

[Mynameisluka]

Just the filter housing. You take the actual filter out and replace it with luscious hops.

this...i should have been more clear. i also think the guy had engineered some sort of tube that attached to the water inlet. the tube went down into the filter housing, and it had holes in it to help increase contact between the beer and the hops.

[davelew]

Could you combine a Randall with a Burton Union? Basically, use the pressure from the evolved CO2 to pump the beer over some hops, over and over again.

Here's an image of what I was thinking:Now, just put some hops in the union (where the orange yeast is shown right now).