29 replies to this topic

[mead4science]

I'm thinking of grabbing a few lbs of local peaches this weekend and putting down a batch of Ken Schramm's Peach/Ginger Melomel. But I'm thinking of doing it with a more exciting yeast. Mr. Schramm's fidelity to D-47, and I'm kind of wondering whether there's a reason for that or he's just not interested in the yeast-generated flavor effects. It seems that a bunch of different wine yeasts can amp/soften flavors, as discussed in Radical Brews. He doesn't discuss different yeast effects at all. So has anyone tried this recipe? In particular, have you made it with any different yeasts? How did it effect the flavor?When I used Pasteur Champagne for a basic sparkling mead, it developed a nice cidery flavor.I made a lightly pomegranate mead with 71-B and it was really, really dry. Please help me out guys!

[strangebrewer]

First off welcome aboard! Always good to see more mead makers.I tend to agree with your point of view on yeasts for meads. I'm a big fan of 71B since it contributes to the flavor profile, can metabolize malic acid, and it's got a moderate ABV tolerance. D47 has always attenuated better than expected for me and unexpected high ABV in a mead is not always a good thing.I have not made that particular recipe but I know Mtnbrewer has. If he doesn't respond to this post then shoot him a PM. I know he checks in here so probably just be patient. In my experience though I've subbed 71B for D47 and been happy with the results. As for your pomegranate mead made with 71B. I'd point to the acidity of the fruit more than anything as the culprit for the dry finish. With fruits such as pomegranate, cranberry, and raspberry their natural acidity can make a mead that finishes at 1.020 taste dry.

[MtnBrewer]

Yes, I made that recipe. It's been a couple of years but I think I used D-47 for it. Nearly all my meads use either D-47 or 71B and I believe either one would be fine here. I completely agree that there is room for a lot of research as to what yeast works best in what mead. The only times I've strayed from one of those two yeasts was for pyments. In those cases, I used a yeast that was typically used for the grape varietal used. There is a guy on Got Mead (Oskaar) that has done some research in this area and here is a little chart that I compiled from his information:Melomels - K1V-1116, D-47, 71B-1122, D21Pyments - RC-212, EC-1118, D254, BA11, BM45Metheglins - 71B-1122, K1V-1116, EC-1118, D-47, DV10, D21Cysers - D-47, K1V-1116, 71B-1122, EC-1118, D21, CY3079Traditional Sweet/Semi-Dry Mead - D-47, 71B-1122, BA11, K1V-1116Traditional Dry Mead - DV10, K1V-1116, D21, EC-1118, CY3079, R2, ICV-GREAs for your peach mead, here are some recommendations based on my experience.Use a lot of peaches. Don't even think about using "a few pounds". I believe I used around 15 lbs. and I don't think 20 would be a mistake. Use the ripest and highest quality peaches you can find (i.e., don't use grocery store peaches). Go to a farmer's market and try to find overripe peaches. These are the ones that were very ripe when picked and have gotten a little mushy. They aren't really good for eating but they make great pies and more importantly, meads. Peach is such a hard flavor to extract from the fruit so do everything you can to improve your chances. The recipe calls for you to halve the peaches but I cut mine into slices and then froze them. Also, I didn't grate my ginger, which was a mistake. I cut it into slivers but didn't get very much ginger flavor. Next time I will grate it.

[armagh]

Use a lot of peaches. Don't even think about using "a few pounds". I believe I used around 15 lbs. and I don't think 20 would be a mistake. Use the ripest and highest quality peaches you can find (i.e., don't use grocery store peaches). Go to a farmer's market and try to find overripe peaches. These are the ones that were very ripe when picked and have gotten a little mushy. They aren't really good for eating but they make great pies and more importantly, meads. Peach is such a hard flavor to extract from the fruit so do everything you can to improve your chances. The recipe calls for you to halve the peaches but I cut mine into slices and then froze them. Also, I didn't grate my ginger, which was a mistake. I cut it into slivers but didn't get very much ginger flavor. Next time I will grate it.I'm in the 20 pound+ club on this one. Anything less is subtle to the point of non-existent. I routinely blanch, peel and stone before freezing. Come to think of it, it's about that time of year up the road in Georgia. Thanks for the reminder.

Edited by armagh, 23 July 2010 - 11:09 AM.

[mead4science]

Use a lot of peaches. Don't even think about using "a few pounds". I believe I used around 15 lbs. and I don't think 20 would be a mistake. Use the ripest and highest quality peaches you can find (i.e., don't use grocery store peaches). Go to a farmer's market and try to find overripe peaches. These are the ones that were very ripe when picked and have gotten a little mushy. They aren't really good for eating but they make great pies and more importantly, meads. Peach is such a hard flavor to extract from the fruit so do everything you can to improve your chances. The recipe calls for you to halve the peaches but I cut mine into slices and then froze them. Also, I didn't grate my ginger, which was a mistake. I cut it into slivers but didn't get very much ginger flavor. Next time I will grate it.

Thanks for the tip on the peaches and the ginger. I'm hoping to go out to a pick-your-own place this weekend. You made a 5 gallon batch?

[MtnBrewer]

Was that the one you gave me a bottle of? Whichever peach mead it was - it was amazing!

Thanks! Yes, that was the one. I still have some left but I need to get busy with it because the peach flavor is beginning to fade. Probably too late this year to try to make another batch but I do want to try that one again.

Thanks for the tip on the peaches and the ginger. I'm hoping to go out to a pick-your-own place this weekend. You made a 5 gallon batch?

Correct, a 5 gallon batch.

[strangebrewer]

Thanks! Yes, that was the one. I still have some left but I need to get busy with it because the peach flavor is beginning to fade. Probably too late this year to try to make another batch but I do want to try that one again.

What do you mean? We are just getting into peach season! I was planning to make a batch of this mead this year with Western slope peaches once they start coming in.I have a guy I work with who every year drives a pickup truck out there and brings back cases of peaches for the office. They will last less than 5 days before they turn to mush they are so ripe.

[MtnBrewer]

Good to know. For some reason, I thought the peaches came in in early July.

[strangebrewer]

Good to know. For some reason, I thought the peaches came in in early July.

Some are in now but it was a cooler summer so I'd expect to see them into October this year.

[mead4science]

I realized that the Compleat Meadmaker leaves a lot to be desired as a writer.Unfortunately I realized this with about 2 gallons of honey water on the stove. He did not clearly explain when you should add pectinase, nutrient or peaches. Also--as I was warned, the peaches were not terribly easy to handle. I got about <1/2 gallon of juice right off. (about 12lbs of blanched, sliced frozen peaches) but then I had to torture the peaches in order to get more juice out of them. Also, they know where the rebel base on Dantoonie is.Anyway--in a poorly informed executive decision, I added the peach juice+some peaches as I was heating the must. Then I added the pectinase (2tsp total for 3 gallons--it was really cloudy). I heated for 10 minutes just north of 160C. Then I quick cooled it to 120 and put it in the carboy with a funnel and chopstick (to poke the stuck peach bits through. Then I tortured that peaches some more--even blending some in the blender to get the peach-yness into the carboy. All in all, I had about 2.7 quarts of honey (~7.5lbs), 1.5 gallons spring water and the balance peaches. Grated in about two tablespoons of ginger (in a tea bag for a laughable attempt at neatness).I pitched a packet of D-47 according to the instructions. Saw signs of life after about 2-4 hours. This morning...well, I've never seen a mead like this. It blew off the cap of the airlock and foamed over the top. This is beyond vigorous--I think it might be possessed. Thank Freya I didn't add any yeast nutrient, I think it would have summoned some kind of primordial Yeast Overlord.Put a new airlock on. It's bubbling about 5x/second. No--that's not a typo. It smells pretty good though.

[davelew]

I've always added pectinase to cold must, never to warm. How do other people use it?

[MtnBrewer]

I've always added pectinase to cold must, never to warm. How do other people use it?

I don't know why your must would ever be warm in the first place. I add pectinase to the secondary when I add the fruit.

[mead4science]

It helps if you thoroughly read and comprehend every step before getting started. Don't blame Schramm - blame yourself.

Yes, I should have sought other sources about the recipe. But that doesn't change the fact that Schramm's book isn't very well-organized and that his recipes leave out several crucial steps. The basic mead recipe is good, and generally I don't bother with extra nutrients. I use good honey and it seems to go just fine. But most of the steps you've described: including the steps about only adding fruit to a mead in a bucket or your opinion on carboys. Nowhere in the book. Blowoff tubes are not discussed. There is a chapter on the relative spicyness of peppers for pepper mead. I will probably tear it out, because in addition to being useless--it just makes it harder to find useful information.

[mead4science]

I don't know why your must would ever be warm in the first place. I add pectinase to the secondary when I add the fruit.

Schramm called for a 'primary fermentation' for the peach recipe. I assumed that the peach-mead flavors would marry better if they were fermented together. Of course, how to do a primary fermentation is discussed..umm..not well. It's sporadically mentioned about 3 chapters away from the recipe. So I improvised. Also--nothing about storage temeperatures for the pectinase. I'll probably add some to the secondary if it looks unbearably terrible. But the proof is in the pudding. So if it tastes good, that is good enough.

[davelew]

The problem with adding fruit and honey at the same time is that the CO2 being blown out of the fermenter can also carry some fruit aroma. Most people find that fruit flavors show better if the fruit is added after all the honey has fermented.Here's how I would have made your recipe:Step 1: boil a big pot of water. Add peaches in a basket, removing peaches after 60 seconds, then slide the skins off the peaches, cut the peach in half, remove the stone, and put the peach halves in a ziploc bag in the freezer. Repeat for all 12 pounds of peaches.Step 2: Combine 1.5 gallons spring water with the peach skins. Bring to a boil (to extract the pink color from the peach skins, sanitize the water, and drive off any chlorine or other volatile impurities in the water), then chill, covered.Step 3: Sanitize a strainer, a stirrer, a blowoff tube, and a fermenter.Step 4: Strain the peach skins out of the water while adding it to the fermenter. Add honey and yeast and stir. Install the blowoff tube.Step 5: After ~1 week when the fermentation has subsided, defrost the peach halves, crush them inside the ziploc bags, and add the crushed fruit and peach juice to the fermenter. Be prepared for the fermentation to take off again, and to really need the blowoff tube this time.Step 6: After another week or so, when the fermentation has subsided, add pectinase enzyme.Step 7: After 1 or 2 days, rack to another vessel for aging, leaving behind a lot of junk in the bottom of the fermenter.

[MtnBrewer]

Schramm called for a 'primary fermentation' for the peach recipe. I assumed that the peach-mead flavors would marry better if they were fermented together. Of course, how to do a primary fermentation is discussed..umm..not well. It's sporadically mentioned about 3 chapters away from the recipe. So I improvised.

I may have added fruit to the primary, I don't really remember now. In any case, that wouldn't cause the must to be warm. My must is never over 70°F at any point. Raising the temperature sets the pectins and causes the problem you're trying to prevent. Also higher temperatures cause volatile honey aromas to be lost.

Also--nothing about storage temeperatures for the pectinase. I'll probably add some to the secondary if it looks unbearably terrible. But the proof is in the pudding. So if it tastes good, that is good enough.

Actually the expression is "The proof of the pudding is in the tasting."

[mead4science]

I may have added fruit to the primary, I don't really remember now. In any case, that wouldn't cause the must to be warm. My must is never over 70°F at any point. Raising the temperature sets the pectins and causes the problem you're trying to prevent. Also higher temperatures cause volatile honey aromas to be lost.Actually the expression is "The proof of the pudding is in the tasting."

Yeah, I know Boil vs. No-Boil is a bit of a controversy--and everyone likes their own way best. I found this article pretty convincing--but maybe that's just because I like numbers. https://www.washingt...y-over-boiling/

[MtnBrewer]

Hmm, I was not aware that there was any controversy at all.

[mead4science]

Yeah, this article was covered in the Washington Post (I think), a couple years ago. So the proof of the pudding may be in the blind taste testing?

[MtnBrewer]

Yeah, this article was covered in the Washington Post (I think), a couple years ago. So the proof of the pudding may be in the blind taste testing?

Right and it just confirmed what I already thought: that boiling reduces honey aroma. I don't see how better mouthfeel can make up for that. If I want better mouthfeel, I can always age it sur lie. So for me at least, there's still no controversy.