Ugh!
#1
Posted 08 July 2010 - 03:23 PM
#2
Posted 08 July 2010 - 03:45 PM
Ken,I am no aficianado of fruit beers nor an expert as I try to avoid fruit in my beer too (had disaster way back in the extract days) Here is the suggestion I would make to you. If you think you can salvage the beer that you considered ruined get a pint of the beer and add some of the syrup to a glass and see if it fixes the flavor flaws you find. If it does then why not add the syrup to a keg and taste to your desired improved flavor. I have brewed and used Torani brand Torani syrups to add certain flavors to beer and they have turned out great. I don't see any reason why not to use the product you detail. I hope you can salvage the beer though I know it sucks dumping something you worked hard to create. MikeI have tried numerous times to make a fruit beer (extracts, puree, real fruit, etc.) and the sugars from the fruit always kick up a secondary fermentation that ends up drying out the beer. I just racked a raspberry ale from secondary to a tertiary (to get it off of 1½ pounds of fresh raspberries that were frozen, thawed, pureed, heated to 160° and added to secondary) and it tasted like jet fuel and a wine cooler mixed together. I think I'm done trying to add real fruit to beer. I have failed too many times. So I have a bottle of THIS that I picked up at Sam's club and I wonder what you guys think. My bottle looks slightly different and it's sugar free... but it's the same brand name raspberry syrup. This bottle is 25.4 ounces and the label says that you can use anywhere from ½ ounce to 1½ ounce in 12 ounces of things like coffee, espresso, latte, Italian soda and lemonade or ice tea. So I'm thinking, "why not beer"? Anyone see an issue with it? I would consider dumping it right into the keg and racking a cream/blonde/wheat on top of it. Ingredients: Water, natural flavor, cellulose gum, Splenda, sodium benzoate, citric acid, Red 40, Blue 1. The cellulose gum sounds a little off-putting, but this stuff is not really syrupy... it's got a thin consistency. I know some of you wouldn't even consider this... sorry to disturb that thinking but you'll have to avert your eyes. Thanks guys.
#3
Posted 08 July 2010 - 07:53 PM
#4
Posted 08 July 2010 - 08:15 PM
#5
Posted 08 July 2010 - 08:23 PM
#6
Posted 08 July 2010 - 08:44 PM
#7
Posted 08 July 2010 - 08:55 PM
#8
Posted 09 July 2010 - 07:36 AM
#9
Posted 09 July 2010 - 07:47 AM
#10
Posted 09 July 2010 - 07:59 AM
Good advice. Which is what I do. I may add that after primary I cold condition to drop out as much yeast as possible before adding extract after carbonation. I also never use more than 4oz/5g of Apricot and 3-3.5oz/5g of Raspberry. Also, I prefer using 1272 fermented @70* for these fruity wheat beers. The ester from that strain help make the beer more than one dimensional. Using real fruit for this style just isn't worth the hassle for reasons Ken has already described. The flavor profile between the extract and real fruit is so negligible its very difficult/impossible to differentiate the two. Other advice is to bump the BU:GU a hair and mash around 148* to make up for the slight added sweetness caused from back sweetening of fruit extract.Fast forward to this weekend, I will be doing the same thing with a blueberry wheat I've got fermenting and almost ready to keg. Adding blueberry extract to the keg after carbonation. One thing I will do different is slowly add the extract as opposed to just dumping all five ounces in. My #9 clone might have to a tad to fruit flavored so this time, I'll add 3 ounces and add more if needed.
#11
Posted 09 July 2010 - 09:01 AM
#12
Posted 09 July 2010 - 09:05 AM
McMenamins Ruby Ale is every Portland beer drinker's guilty pleasure. Don't let your hop-head buddies catch you drinking one in the back at the Crystal Ballroom! And yes, Oregon Fruit Puree is the way to go.I made a raspberry fruit beer once. I was trying to clone McMenamins Ruby Ale (look it up). I must have just got lucky and stopped fermentation just in time cuz it turned out awesome. Everyone who tried it loved it. I used Oregon Fruit Puree, fwiw.
#13
Posted 09 July 2010 - 09:10 AM
Chad: The bottom line on your comment is that it seems best to use some sort of extract. I will admit that many of the fruit extracts I have tried taste like dookie. I did make a nice raspberry beer with McCormick natural raspberry extract but it's been hard to find lately. I know that there are a bunch of gourmet extracts online that seem to be better so maybe that's my thing. I just don't think I can make another attempt with real fruit or the puree because it's a bit of extra work and my results have been absolutely horrible. I will let my kids eat my frozen blackberries and I will look online for a premium blackberry extract instead. Cheers guys!Ken, you and I seem to be always persuing a good fruit beer. I finally had some success a few batches ago when I brewed a Magic Hat #9 clone. After I racked to the keg, I chilled overnight and then carbed the beer. Once carbonated, I added the apricot extract and gave the keg a couple shakes to mix. It turned out perfect! Fast forward to this weekend, I will be doing the same thing with a blueberry wheat I've got fermenting and almost ready to keg. Adding blueberry extract to the keg after carbonation. One thing I will do different is slowly add the extract as opposed to just dumping all five ounces in. My #9 clone might have to a tad to fruit flavored so this time, I'll add 3 ounces and add more if needed.
#15
Posted 09 July 2010 - 01:06 PM
I haven't made a fruit beer in a few years, but this was the method I used to use:Mash grains at 165 to 170 for an hour, sparge, boil with no hops for an hour, ferment with something like 1056. This gives a sickly sweet beer, because it was mashed way too high.After fermentation, I take some fruit (usually raspberries or blueberries) and freeze them, then put them in a grain sock (these are things that the LHBS sells, basically a cheesecloth rolled in a tube and closed at one end). I boil up a big pot of water, and put the fruit-filled grain sock in it for a minute. That kills the surface microbes without driving off all the fruit aroma. Then I put the sock into the secondary fermenter and let it sit on the fruit for a couple of weeks.I find the combination of the too-sweet beer and the too-tart fruit balances out nicely.I have tried numerous times to make a fruit beer (extracts, puree, real fruit, etc.) and the sugars from the fruit always kick up a secondary fermentation that ends up drying out the beer.
#16
Posted 09 July 2010 - 04:25 PM
No hops?I haven't made a fruit beer in a few years, but this was the method I used to use:Mash grains at 165 to 170 for an hour, sparge, boil with no hops for an hour, ferment with something like 1056. This gives a sickly sweet beer, because it was mashed way too high.After fermentation, I take some fruit (usually raspberries or blueberries) and freeze them, then put them in a grain sock (these are things that the LHBS sells, basically a cheesecloth rolled in a tube and closed at one end). I boil up a big pot of water, and put the fruit-filled grain sock in it for a minute. That kills the surface microbes without driving off all the fruit aroma. Then I put the sock into the secondary fermenter and let it sit on the fruit for a couple of weeks.I find the combination of the too-sweet beer and the too-tart fruit balances out nicely.
#17
Posted 09 July 2010 - 06:27 PM
The sourness of the fruit balances the sweet instead of the bitterness of the hops. The taste and aroma of the fruit likewise take over from the taste and aroma hops.I use plenty of hops in most of my beers, but I tend to leave them out of sour beers and fruit beers. I like my bitter beers to be bitter, my sour beers to be sour, and my fruity beers to be fruity. In sour and fruit beers, I think that hops just distract from the main event.No hops?
#18
Posted 09 July 2010 - 06:46 PM
I'd still hop it to a light degree. But I like the idea of that method that you use because it will prevent the wort from fermenting too much so the secondary fermentation would actually be beneficial and not create a beer that is too dry. I'll have to try that as I want to try my hand at my first fruit beer real soon. Maybe like a Peach Pale Ale or something along those lines. It has been my experience that Peaches and Apricots taste the best in the fruit beers that I've had.The sourness of the fruit balances the sweet instead of the bitterness of the hops. The taste and aroma of the fruit likewise take over from the taste and aroma hops.I use plenty of hops in most of my beers, but I tend to leave them out of sour beers and fruit beers. I like my bitter beers to be bitter, my sour beers to be sour, and my fruity beers to be fruity. In sour and fruit beers, I think that hops just distract from the main event.
#19
Posted 09 July 2010 - 08:00 PM
#20
Posted 10 July 2010 - 06:11 AM
That depends on the fruit. Most fruit is acidic enough that the low pH will maintain stability. The tannins in fruit like blueberries or black currants also act as a preservative.There's nothing wrong with adding hops, I just think it's an unnecessary extra step with sour beers and fruit beers.You still need hops for beer stability at least 20 IbU's or so.
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