26 replies to this topic

[Big Nake]

I have tried numerous times to make a fruit beer (extracts, puree, real fruit, etc.) and the sugars from the fruit always kick up a secondary fermentation that ends up drying out the beer. I just racked a raspberry ale from secondary to a tertiary (to get it off of 1½ pounds of fresh raspberries that were frozen, thawed, pureed, heated to 160° and added to secondary) and it tasted like jet fuel and a wine cooler mixed together. I think I'm done trying to add real fruit to beer. I have failed too many times. So I have a bottle of THIS that I picked up at Sam's club and I wonder what you guys think. My bottle looks slightly different and it's sugar free... but it's the same brand name raspberry syrup. This bottle is 25.4 ounces and the label says that you can use anywhere from ½ ounce to 1½ ounce in 12 ounces of things like coffee, espresso, latte, Italian soda and lemonade or ice tea. So I'm thinking, "why not beer"? Anyone see an issue with it? I would consider dumping it right into the keg and racking a cream/blonde/wheat on top of it. Ingredients: Water, natural flavor, cellulose gum, Splenda, sodium benzoate, citric acid, Red 40, Blue 1. The cellulose gum sounds a little off-putting, but this stuff is not really syrupy... it's got a thin consistency. I know some of you wouldn't even consider this... sorry to disturb that thinking but you'll have to avert your eyes. Thanks guys.

[ncbeerbrewer]

I have tried numerous times to make a fruit beer (extracts, puree, real fruit, etc.) and the sugars from the fruit always kick up a secondary fermentation that ends up drying out the beer. I just racked a raspberry ale from secondary to a tertiary (to get it off of 1½ pounds of fresh raspberries that were frozen, thawed, pureed, heated to 160° and added to secondary) and it tasted like jet fuel and a wine cooler mixed together. I think I'm done trying to add real fruit to beer. I have failed too many times. So I have a bottle of THIS that I picked up at Sam's club and I wonder what you guys think. My bottle looks slightly different and it's sugar free... but it's the same brand name raspberry syrup. This bottle is 25.4 ounces and the label says that you can use anywhere from ½ ounce to 1½ ounce in 12 ounces of things like coffee, espresso, latte, Italian soda and lemonade or ice tea. So I'm thinking, "why not beer"? Anyone see an issue with it? I would consider dumping it right into the keg and racking a cream/blonde/wheat on top of it. Ingredients: Water, natural flavor, cellulose gum, Splenda, sodium benzoate, citric acid, Red 40, Blue 1. The cellulose gum sounds a little off-putting, but this stuff is not really syrupy... it's got a thin consistency. I know some of you wouldn't even consider this... sorry to disturb that thinking but you'll have to avert your eyes. Thanks guys.

Ken,I am no aficianado of fruit beers nor an expert as I try to avoid fruit in my beer too (had disaster way back in the extract days) Here is the suggestion I would make to you. If you think you can salvage the beer that you considered ruined get a pint of the beer and add some of the syrup to a glass and see if it fixes the flavor flaws you find. If it does then why not add the syrup to a keg and taste to your desired improved flavor. I have brewed and used Torani brand Torani syrups to add certain flavors to beer and they have turned out great. I don't see any reason why not to use the product you detail. I hope you can salvage the beer though I know it sucks dumping something you worked hard to create. Mike

[Big Nake]

Thanks Mike. I figured I would experiment with a beer I have on tap right now... a dark lager. It's mildly hopped with Magnum at 60 (maybe 5.5 AAU) and fermented with 2124 Bohemian Lager yeast. I see that a ½ ounce is about 15ml and that seemed like a lot so I dialed it down to 10ml of this raspberry flavoring in a 16oz glass of beer. I measured it out and tapped the dark lager into the glass. The head was bright pink and the beer was a very red-brown color. It was too much. Much too much. I drank some of that and then poured it out and then just tapped a glass of dark lager back into the glass. There was a very faint hint of the fruit. I'm now drinking a 16oz glass with 2ml of this raspberry flavoring in it and it seems pretty good. There are forty 16oz glasses of beer in a 5-gallon keg so now I just need to know how many ounces that comes to.2ml * 40 glasses = how many oz?EDIT: It appears to be right around 3 oz. Holy cow, this stuff is MUCH more potent than I thought!

[strangebrewer]

What other fruit have you tried to use? You may have set yourself up for failure by using raspberry. The acidity of raspberries can make a beer that finished at 1.020 taste tart. If you finished in the usual 1.010-1.015 range then it would definitely come across as tart and dry. I haven't made a fruit beer in quite a while myself but I had my best success with strawberries and peaches in wheat beers. Both of them require a LOT of fruit to get the flavor to come across but I didn't have issues with them restarting the fermentation and drying out the beer.I tried using the syrups once and that was enough for me. There was something in the syrup that I could pick out of the smell as I poured the pint that I couldn't stand.Good luck. Sucks to dump what could have been good beer!

[Jimmy James]

Ditto on Stangebrewer's advice. Raspberries suck, or at least that's my opinion based on my own experience and the number of stories I've heard about beers with actual raspberries or the flavorings added that came out kinda nasty. Cherries have worked good for me, albeit in intentionally sour beers. I haven't tried them yet, but I hear good things about apricots - you can get the peachy flavors from them but don't have to use as much fruit as with actual peaches. I've got a passion fruit lambic teed up for later this summer, but I won't know how it turns out for a while. Maybe if I have some fruit left over I'll throw some in a weissbier.

[Big Nake]

Well, maybe I have high expectations and unreasonable goals here... I do want to make a good raspberry beer and my on deck fruit beer (I already have the fruit frozen and ready to go) was going to be blackberry. I tried a blueberry (didn't use enough) and I tried strawberry too (also... very faint flavor) but raspberry has always been my #1 fruit beer goal. It just seems that some sort of natural extract or flavoring is easiest.

[jammer]

I made a raspberry fruit beer once. I was trying to clone McMenamins Ruby Ale (look it up). I must have just got lucky and stopped fermentation just in time cuz it turned out awesome. Everyone who tried it loved it. I used Oregon Fruit Puree, fwiw.

[BlKtRe]

Id toss some Brett B in that bad boy.fwiw, my Apricot Wheat is a panty dropper. The only reason I make one.

[chadm75]

Ken, you and I seem to be always persuing a good fruit beer. I finally had some success a few batches ago when I brewed a Magic Hat #9 clone. After I racked to the keg, I chilled overnight and then carbed the beer. Once carbonated, I added the apricot extract and gave the keg a couple shakes to mix. It turned out perfect! Fast forward to this weekend, I will be doing the same thing with a blueberry wheat I've got fermenting and almost ready to keg. Adding blueberry extract to the keg after carbonation. One thing I will do different is slowly add the extract as opposed to just dumping all five ounces in. My #9 clone might have to a tad to fruit flavored so this time, I'll add 3 ounces and add more if needed.

[BlKtRe]

Fast forward to this weekend, I will be doing the same thing with a blueberry wheat I've got fermenting and almost ready to keg. Adding blueberry extract to the keg after carbonation. One thing I will do different is slowly add the extract as opposed to just dumping all five ounces in. My #9 clone might have to a tad to fruit flavored so this time, I'll add 3 ounces and add more if needed.

Good advice. Which is what I do. I may add that after primary I cold condition to drop out as much yeast as possible before adding extract after carbonation. I also never use more than 4oz/5g of Apricot and 3-3.5oz/5g of Raspberry. Also, I prefer using 1272 fermented @70* for these fruity wheat beers. The ester from that strain help make the beer more than one dimensional. Using real fruit for this style just isn't worth the hassle for reasons Ken has already described. The flavor profile between the extract and real fruit is so negligible its very difficult/impossible to differentiate the two. Other advice is to bump the BU:GU a hair and mash around 148* to make up for the slight added sweetness caused from back sweetening of fruit extract.

[harryfrog]

I just made a mango wheat (recipe courtesy of Zymurgy, (May/June 2010) and had success with the fruit addition part of the beer. They recommended to cold condition the beer before adding fruit, and leaving the beer cold while the fruit is in. It definately didn't kick up a second fermentation.The beer is still horrible, but that's due to my fruit selection. I couldn't find enough ripe mangoes for the batch (32oz of puree for a 5 gallon batch) so I opted for the frozen mango chunks that come from Trader Joe's. The base beer tasted fantastic, the finished tastes more like cucumber than mango (ewww).I'd recommend trying making the beer again but chill it before adding the fruit and leave it chilled from that point on. That should inhibit the secondary fermentation. Also, I did not process the fruit in anyway and haven't noticed an infection (it's been a month and a half). At this point, I'm leaning towards infecting the beer to maybe eliminate the cucumber aroma, but I'm afraid I'll end up with sour cucumber beer.Guess I could always add some dill and make pickle beer...

[lowendfrequency]

I made a raspberry fruit beer once. I was trying to clone McMenamins Ruby Ale (look it up). I must have just got lucky and stopped fermentation just in time cuz it turned out awesome. Everyone who tried it loved it. I used Oregon Fruit Puree, fwiw.

McMenamins Ruby Ale is every Portland beer drinker's guilty pleasure. Don't let your hop-head buddies catch you drinking one in the back at the Crystal Ballroom! And yes, Oregon Fruit Puree is the way to go.

[Big Nake]

Ken, you and I seem to be always persuing a good fruit beer. I finally had some success a few batches ago when I brewed a Magic Hat #9 clone. After I racked to the keg, I chilled overnight and then carbed the beer. Once carbonated, I added the apricot extract and gave the keg a couple shakes to mix. It turned out perfect! Fast forward to this weekend, I will be doing the same thing with a blueberry wheat I've got fermenting and almost ready to keg. Adding blueberry extract to the keg after carbonation. One thing I will do different is slowly add the extract as opposed to just dumping all five ounces in. My #9 clone might have to a tad to fruit flavored so this time, I'll add 3 ounces and add more if needed.

Chad: The bottom line on your comment is that it seems best to use some sort of extract. I will admit that many of the fruit extracts I have tried taste like dookie. I did make a nice raspberry beer with McCormick natural raspberry extract but it's been hard to find lately. I know that there are a bunch of gourmet extracts online that seem to be better so maybe that's my thing. I just don't think I can make another attempt with real fruit or the puree because it's a bit of extra work and my results have been absolutely horrible. I will let my kids eat my frozen blackberries and I will look online for a premium blackberry extract instead. Cheers guys!

[BlKtRe]

This is the extract I use w/great success used in the manner stated above.Extract

[davelew]

I have tried numerous times to make a fruit beer (extracts, puree, real fruit, etc.) and the sugars from the fruit always kick up a secondary fermentation that ends up drying out the beer.

I haven't made a fruit beer in a few years, but this was the method I used to use:Mash grains at 165 to 170 for an hour, sparge, boil with no hops for an hour, ferment with something like 1056. This gives a sickly sweet beer, because it was mashed way too high.After fermentation, I take some fruit (usually raspberries or blueberries) and freeze them, then put them in a grain sock (these are things that the LHBS sells, basically a cheesecloth rolled in a tube and closed at one end). I boil up a big pot of water, and put the fruit-filled grain sock in it for a minute. That kills the surface microbes without driving off all the fruit aroma. Then I put the sock into the secondary fermenter and let it sit on the fruit for a couple of weeks.I find the combination of the too-sweet beer and the too-tart fruit balances out nicely.

[Big Nake]

I haven't made a fruit beer in a few years, but this was the method I used to use:Mash grains at 165 to 170 for an hour, sparge, boil with no hops for an hour, ferment with something like 1056. This gives a sickly sweet beer, because it was mashed way too high.After fermentation, I take some fruit (usually raspberries or blueberries) and freeze them, then put them in a grain sock (these are things that the LHBS sells, basically a cheesecloth rolled in a tube and closed at one end). I boil up a big pot of water, and put the fruit-filled grain sock in it for a minute. That kills the surface microbes without driving off all the fruit aroma. Then I put the sock into the secondary fermenter and let it sit on the fruit for a couple of weeks.I find the combination of the too-sweet beer and the too-tart fruit balances out nicely.

No hops?

[davelew]

No hops?

The sourness of the fruit balances the sweet instead of the bitterness of the hops. The taste and aroma of the fruit likewise take over from the taste and aroma hops.I use plenty of hops in most of my beers, but I tend to leave them out of sour beers and fruit beers. I like my bitter beers to be bitter, my sour beers to be sour, and my fruity beers to be fruity. In sour and fruit beers, I think that hops just distract from the main event.

[CaptRon]

The sourness of the fruit balances the sweet instead of the bitterness of the hops. The taste and aroma of the fruit likewise take over from the taste and aroma hops.I use plenty of hops in most of my beers, but I tend to leave them out of sour beers and fruit beers. I like my bitter beers to be bitter, my sour beers to be sour, and my fruity beers to be fruity. In sour and fruit beers, I think that hops just distract from the main event.

I'd still hop it to a light degree. But I like the idea of that method that you use because it will prevent the wort from fermenting too much so the secondary fermentation would actually be beneficial and not create a beer that is too dry. I'll have to try that as I want to try my hand at my first fruit beer real soon. Maybe like a Peach Pale Ale or something along those lines. It has been my experience that Peaches and Apricots taste the best in the fruit beers that I've had.

[BlKtRe]

I dont buy the no hops thing. In theory mashing high, attenuating high and 2ndry ferment with fruit to achieve a balanced beer is just to inconsistent in my mind. Ive never done it, let alone more than once, so it could work. You still need hops for beer stability at least 20 IbU's or so.

[davelew]

You still need hops for beer stability at least 20 IbU's or so.

That depends on the fruit. Most fruit is acidic enough that the low pH will maintain stability. The tannins in fruit like blueberries or black currants also act as a preservative.There's nothing wrong with adding hops, I just think it's an unnecessary extra step with sour beers and fruit beers.