23 replies to this topic

[albertv05]

Long story short, I was given the opportunity to create recipes to be brewed large scale at a contract brewery. I've designed the recipe, brewed samples, and we are happy with the results. The tricky thing is, I'm not sure what to charge for the recipe. Sure, it took me some time to write and come up with it but what about factoring my years of experience and all the knowledge I've acquired throughout the years. And say I sell the recipe for a flat fee and it becomes the next Boston Lager or 60 minute IPA. Obviously this is insanely unlikely, but still an issue. I don't want to look back and have any regret. Can any one offer any thoughts or advice??Thanks again!Al

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

Long story short, I was given the opportunity to create recipes to be brewed large scale at a contract brewery. I've designed the recipe, brewed samples, and we are happy with the results. The tricky thing is, I'm not sure what to charge for the recipe. Sure, it took me some time to write and come up with it but what about factoring my years of experience and all the knowledge I've acquired throughout the years. And say I sell the recipe for a flat fee and it becomes the next Boston Lager or 60 minute IPA. Obviously this is insanely unlikely, but still an issue. I don't want to look back and have any regret. Can any one offer any thoughts or advice??Thanks again!Al

royalties?

[albertv05]

That what I was thinking and I forgot to mention that. The guy that hired me is reluctant to swing that way. I'm a hired "contractor" as far as his business is concerned; hired on a hourly wage. Naturally, that's the way I'd prefer to go. Sure, I could never see a dime but it'd be worth the risk.

[ncbeerbrewer]

Long story short, I was given the opportunity to create recipes to be brewed large scale at a contract brewery. I've designed the recipe, brewed samples, and we are happy with the results. The tricky thing is, I'm not sure what to charge for the recipe. Sure, it took me some time to write and come up with it but what about factoring my years of experience and all the knowledge I've acquired throughout the years. And say I sell the recipe for a flat fee and it becomes the next Boston Lager or 60 minute IPA. Obviously this is insanely unlikely, but still an issue. I don't want to look back and have any regret. Can any one offer any thoughts or advice??Thanks again!Al

Just my opinion but I believe you will get a much better response on probrewer.com discussion board. This is not said to offend anyone here as homebrewers but I would believe that professional brewers and people in the industry that are on that board can give you some good advice. My link

[albertv05]

Thanks for the link to ProBrewer. I've tried over there before but was denied membership! I'll have to try again.

[BrewerGeorge]

AFAIK, you're not able to copyright a recipe, so you can't exactly 'sell' rights to it. I can also understand why a guy starting a new business doesn't want to get tied down into keeping track of and paying out royalties. It would be a huge PITA, I would think. What you CAN do is charge the guy for your time. Add it all up on paper, multiply by what you think is a fair rate and present it to the guy.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

AFAIK, you're not able to copyright a recipe, so you can't exactly 'sell' rights to it. I can also understand why a guy starting a new business doesn't want to get tied down into keeping track of and paying out royalties. It would be a huge PITA, I would think. What you CAN do is charge the guy for your time. Add it all up on paper, multiply by what you think is a fair rate and present it to the guy.

I agree the business owner probably doesn't want to mess around with royalties. I'd think the beer recipe would be like a trade secret.

[SchwanzBrewer]

I think you should make up a contract where should the recipe be such a hit that its production beyond a certain barrel limit would trigger a royalty payment or a bonus. So the guy can start up without a hitch and if it becomes big enough you get what you deserve.Another way to go about it would be to get shares in the company. So if they get large profits from selling your recipe then you benefit equally.Cheers,Rich

[North]

recipe aside...who is going to sell the beer?

[albertv05]

He will be doing the sales. I have been brought on board to write recipes, brew test batches, and work with the contract brewer to scale up the recipes.

[lowendfrequency]

AFAIK, you're not able to copyright a recipe, so you can't exactly 'sell' rights to it. I can also understand why a guy starting a new business doesn't want to get tied down into keeping track of and paying out royalties. It would be a huge PITA, I would think. What you CAN do is charge the guy for your time. Add it all up on paper, multiply by what you think is a fair rate and present it to the guy.

This. You cannot legally copyright a recipe in the US. You can only copyright a specific or unique process involved in the preparation of your product, like how Dogfish owns the patent to their continuous hopping machine. I'm sure a fancy contract could still work in some sort of sale based compensation for you, but it wouldn't be "royalties" because that implies partial ownership. I say charge a flat rate and if your recipe is a runaway success then be sure to increase your price accordingly when they come back for the next one.

[Deerslyr]

This. You cannot legally copyright a recipe in the US. You can only copyright a specific or unique process involved in the preparation of your product, like how Dogfish owns the patent to their continuous hopping machine. I'm sure a fancy contract could still work in some sort of sale based compensation for you, but it wouldn't be "royalties" because that implies partial ownership. I say charge a flat rate and if your recipe is a runaway success then be sure to increase your price accordingly when they come back for the next one.

Do it for a nominal fee, but write the contract that so long as he brews it, you are considered a contract employee and that if it hits X number barrels in sales, then he pays a bonus to you. Create several levels for bonuses. Look, there is value to him in developing a recipe that is a winner. When some people go into business together, there is usually one person who has the money and the other one has the knowledge and skills. They are able to assign a particular split based on what is brought to the partnership. I know you aren't going in as a partner, but there are ways to be creative about it. I'm gonna say it now and loud...Get an attorney to guide you through this. You don't want to get screwed and have hard feelings over it in the future. An ounce of prevention now is worth a pound of cure in the future. Hire an attorney to help you with the contract. and yes... I am one of the attorneys that frequents the board. Take the time now, because in the future the attorney is going to ask "did you have an attorney help you with this?" and what are you going to say? Protect yourself now... not later.

[gumballhead]

He will be doing the sales. I have been brought on board to write recipes, brew test batches, and work with the contract brewer to scale up the recipes.

Reminds me of a Commeccial YOu sure can brew it... yeah but can you sell it.

[dmtaylor]

Guys, guys....... recipes, of course, are a dime a dozen. You really can't charge too much for it, or ask for royalties, or do anything fancy with it, because, if you do, the people with the big money can easily just ask someone else to design a recipe, and then you'll be out of luck.As others have said, all you can really do is ask for maybe $50/hour or whatever you feel is reasonable for the time it took for you to design the recipe, and any time involved brewing it and whatnot. Other than that, it will be up to the brewery to brew it right.A good brewer becomes so not usually because he has a really good recipe, but because he really knows what is important through the whole process from beginning to end. Brewing is an art and a craft, and actually has much less to do with designing the most kickass recipes.

[MyaCullen]

A friend of mine does this, he has sold recipes for usually $500 flat fee, but he does it mostly for the fun of it and subsidizing his hobby

[Jimvy]

He will be doing the sales. I have been brought on board to write recipes, brew test batches, and work with the contract brewer to scale up the recipes.

I think writing great recipes is an art to a point....and scaling it is equally as artistic (and difficult). But really, what you're doing is the same thing most assistant brewers I know do....and they aren't getting paid much for their efforts. If it turns into the next 60 Minute IPA, it's not going to be because of the recipe....it'll be because of the marketing and sales.

[djinkc]

I think writing great recipes is an art to a point....and scaling it is equally as artistic (and difficult). But really, what you're doing is the same thing most assistant brewers I know do....and they aren't getting paid much for their efforts. If it turns into the next 60 Minute IPA, it's not going to be because of the recipe....it'll be because of the marketing and sales.

That in a nutshell. Nice to see you a few weeks ago, wish we could have visited a bit more............

[Mynameisluka]

You can only copyright a specific or unique process involved in the preparation of your product, like how Dogfish owns the patent to their continuous hopping machine.

you're confusing a copyright with a patent.this is from the us copyright office regarding copyrights and recipes.https://www.copyrigh.../fls/fl122.html

[lowendfrequency]

you're confusing a copyright with a patent.this is from the us copyright office regarding copyrights and recipes.https://www.copyrigh.../fls/fl122.html

Really? I thought I was pretty clear and covered my bases by specifically using the words copyright and patent. Now, perhaps the entire thread might be getting a bit confused from the get-go, but I thought my post was pretty well defined. The link you've provided only further substantiates what I was trying to convey. Copyrights are for things like literature, logos and publications. The provisions of copyrights for a recipe only extend to the printing/republication, as shown in your link. It doesn't prevent anyone from brewing your recipe or even making a profit from it. I stand by my story, you can't copyright a recipe. You can only patent the process.