Need some advice
#1
Posted 24 June 2010 - 04:50 AM
#2
Posted 24 June 2010 - 04:53 AM
royalties?Long story short, I was given the opportunity to create recipes to be brewed large scale at a contract brewery. I've designed the recipe, brewed samples, and we are happy with the results. The tricky thing is, I'm not sure what to charge for the recipe. Sure, it took me some time to write and come up with it but what about factoring my years of experience and all the knowledge I've acquired throughout the years. And say I sell the recipe for a flat fee and it becomes the next Boston Lager or 60 minute IPA. Obviously this is insanely unlikely, but still an issue. I don't want to look back and have any regret. Can any one offer any thoughts or advice??Thanks again!Al
#3
Posted 24 June 2010 - 04:56 AM
#4
Posted 24 June 2010 - 05:14 AM
Just my opinion but I believe you will get a much better response on probrewer.com discussion board. This is not said to offend anyone here as homebrewers but I would believe that professional brewers and people in the industry that are on that board can give you some good advice. My linkLong story short, I was given the opportunity to create recipes to be brewed large scale at a contract brewery. I've designed the recipe, brewed samples, and we are happy with the results. The tricky thing is, I'm not sure what to charge for the recipe. Sure, it took me some time to write and come up with it but what about factoring my years of experience and all the knowledge I've acquired throughout the years. And say I sell the recipe for a flat fee and it becomes the next Boston Lager or 60 minute IPA. Obviously this is insanely unlikely, but still an issue. I don't want to look back and have any regret. Can any one offer any thoughts or advice??Thanks again!Al
#5
Posted 24 June 2010 - 05:34 AM
#6
Posted 24 June 2010 - 05:51 AM
#7
Posted 24 June 2010 - 06:23 AM
I agree the business owner probably doesn't want to mess around with royalties. I'd think the beer recipe would be like a trade secret.AFAIK, you're not able to copyright a recipe, so you can't exactly 'sell' rights to it. I can also understand why a guy starting a new business doesn't want to get tied down into keeping track of and paying out royalties. It would be a huge PITA, I would think. What you CAN do is charge the guy for your time. Add it all up on paper, multiply by what you think is a fair rate and present it to the guy.
#8
Posted 24 June 2010 - 08:47 AM
#9
Posted 24 June 2010 - 10:30 AM
#10
Posted 24 June 2010 - 11:13 AM
#11
Posted 24 June 2010 - 11:25 AM
This. You cannot legally copyright a recipe in the US. You can only copyright a specific or unique process involved in the preparation of your product, like how Dogfish owns the patent to their continuous hopping machine. I'm sure a fancy contract could still work in some sort of sale based compensation for you, but it wouldn't be "royalties" because that implies partial ownership. I say charge a flat rate and if your recipe is a runaway success then be sure to increase your price accordingly when they come back for the next one.AFAIK, you're not able to copyright a recipe, so you can't exactly 'sell' rights to it. I can also understand why a guy starting a new business doesn't want to get tied down into keeping track of and paying out royalties. It would be a huge PITA, I would think. What you CAN do is charge the guy for your time. Add it all up on paper, multiply by what you think is a fair rate and present it to the guy.
#12
Posted 24 June 2010 - 11:46 AM
Do it for a nominal fee, but write the contract that so long as he brews it, you are considered a contract employee and that if it hits X number barrels in sales, then he pays a bonus to you. Create several levels for bonuses. Look, there is value to him in developing a recipe that is a winner. When some people go into business together, there is usually one person who has the money and the other one has the knowledge and skills. They are able to assign a particular split based on what is brought to the partnership. I know you aren't going in as a partner, but there are ways to be creative about it. I'm gonna say it now and loud...Get an attorney to guide you through this. You don't want to get screwed and have hard feelings over it in the future. An ounce of prevention now is worth a pound of cure in the future. Hire an attorney to help you with the contract. and yes... I am one of the attorneys that frequents the board. Take the time now, because in the future the attorney is going to ask "did you have an attorney help you with this?" and what are you going to say? Protect yourself now... not later.This. You cannot legally copyright a recipe in the US. You can only copyright a specific or unique process involved in the preparation of your product, like how Dogfish owns the patent to their continuous hopping machine. I'm sure a fancy contract could still work in some sort of sale based compensation for you, but it wouldn't be "royalties" because that implies partial ownership. I say charge a flat rate and if your recipe is a runaway success then be sure to increase your price accordingly when they come back for the next one.
#13
Posted 24 June 2010 - 12:01 PM
Reminds me of a Commeccial YOu sure can brew it... yeah but can you sell it.He will be doing the sales. I have been brought on board to write recipes, brew test batches, and work with the contract brewer to scale up the recipes.
#14
Posted 25 June 2010 - 09:41 AM
#15
Posted 26 June 2010 - 10:14 AM
#16
Posted 27 June 2010 - 05:06 PM
I think writing great recipes is an art to a point....and scaling it is equally as artistic (and difficult). But really, what you're doing is the same thing most assistant brewers I know do....and they aren't getting paid much for their efforts. If it turns into the next 60 Minute IPA, it's not going to be because of the recipe....it'll be because of the marketing and sales.He will be doing the sales. I have been brought on board to write recipes, brew test batches, and work with the contract brewer to scale up the recipes.
#17 *_Guest_Matt C_*
Posted 27 June 2010 - 07:13 PM
+1AFAIK, you're not able to copyright a recipe, so you can't exactly 'sell' rights to it. I can also understand why a guy starting a new business doesn't want to get tied down into keeping track of and paying out royalties. It would be a huge PITA, I would think. What you CAN do is charge the guy for your time. Add it all up on paper, multiply by what you think is a fair rate and present it to the guy.
#18
Posted 27 June 2010 - 07:21 PM
That in a nutshell. Nice to see you a few weeks ago, wish we could have visited a bit more............I think writing great recipes is an art to a point....and scaling it is equally as artistic (and difficult). But really, what you're doing is the same thing most assistant brewers I know do....and they aren't getting paid much for their efforts. If it turns into the next 60 Minute IPA, it's not going to be because of the recipe....it'll be because of the marketing and sales.
#19
Posted 30 June 2010 - 07:30 AM
you're confusing a copyright with a patent.this is from the us copyright office regarding copyrights and recipes.https://www.copyrigh.../fls/fl122.htmlYou can only copyright a specific or unique process involved in the preparation of your product, like how Dogfish owns the patent to their continuous hopping machine.
#20
Posted 30 June 2010 - 08:39 AM
Really? I thought I was pretty clear and covered my bases by specifically using the words copyright and patent. Now, perhaps the entire thread might be getting a bit confused from the get-go, but I thought my post was pretty well defined. The link you've provided only further substantiates what I was trying to convey. Copyrights are for things like literature, logos and publications. The provisions of copyrights for a recipe only extend to the printing/republication, as shown in your link. It doesn't prevent anyone from brewing your recipe or even making a profit from it. I stand by my story, you can't copyright a recipe. You can only patent the process.you're confusing a copyright with a patent.this is from the us copyright office regarding copyrights and recipes.https://www.copyrigh.../fls/fl122.html
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