36 replies to this topic

[BrewerGeorge]

Ok, so I've been reading JZ and Palmer's Brewing Classic Styles on the throne recently, and he continuously talks about how important it is to use the correct base malts. MO for English beers, continental pilsner for most German lagers, American 2-row in American standard lagers NOT pilsner, etc. He even goes so far as to recommend trying to find Belgian pale malt for your Belgian beers and German malted wheat for your weisse beers. This is not a radical position, obviously, everybody says it.For me, though, I've found it doesn't make a huge difference I can taste. It started as an economy measure; I'd just buy a few bags of Rahr and use it for everything. I even make my lagers with Rahr 2-row. After a while, though, I've come to realize that my beers haven't seemed to suffer for doing so. Maybe my pallet just sucks.The only adjustment I make in this area is to add a hint - 2 oz per 10 lbs or so - of Victory or biscuit to an "English" mash using American 2-row instead of Otter, Optic, or Halcyon.What do you guys think on the subject?ETA: Anybody done any taste tests side-by-side with grists differing only in base malt? Anybody done base-only mashes?

[MakeMeHoppy]

I went the other way. I always liked a little biscuit in my APA so I started brewing all beers with Maris Otter. I have since switched back to 2 row for APA/AIPA but use MO for Porters and Scottish Ales. I try to buy base in bulk 1-55 lb bag at a time so I am interested in this thread to help me decide on the best grain to buy in the future.

[BlKtRe]

I do my best to keep the origin of base malts to the correct style. Its fairly easy for my club since we buy bulk and there are lots of options to choose from the supplier. But, Ive found a maltser from Canada has a Pale Malt that works very well with most styles as George was talking about. I started using that malt years ago because it was only $16/55# sak. Its more now, but I still keep it around. In the end I keep Best Malz German Pilsner, Bairds MO, and Canada Pale Malt. These malts are much cheaper than say a Thomas Faucet MO. I use the BM Pils for all my German and Belgian beers. Since Belgian's are so yeast driven I have a hard time with someone telling me that I used German malts and not Belgian in those beers. The Canada is used with all my American beers.

[zymot]

I have read threads where people praise one 2 row base malt or compare two different base malts.I have never been in a position to do that. There are so many variable that determine the final product, I do not know how to isolate the contribution that the base malt made.I have made very good APAs with the Rahr 2 row, so I will use the Rahr again. If I used a Briess 2 row instead, would it be different/better/worse? I have not way to know.If I brewed a second batch, that came out horrible, the variables in play would make it difficult to come to any specific conclusion. I could guess/assume the Briess was a crummy malt or I made some mistake in recipe or in my process.My LHBS is morebeer, they always have many base malts available. When I put a recipe together, I choose the base malt that is traditionally the most appropriate. If I want MO and they are out of it, I get the next best thing available and not worry about it.Who knows, maybe the substitute will make a beer I like better.Bottom line I do not sweat the base malt choice either. Does it make a difference? The answer probably depends on the style. A baltic porter or a stout with tons of roasted and black patent? No.A light european pilsner, with very little specialty grains, then I would go out my way to secure the "correct" base malt. If I wanted to stay in style. (I seldom do that)Last beer I brewed was a Vienna/Sterling SMaSH beer. Substitute with anythign else, yes, I would expect a different beer.zymot

[MtnBrewer]

George, I agree. I pretty much use two base malts for everything. I use some type of either British or German pale malt for most ales and either Belgian or German pilsner malt for lagers and Belgian ales. My American ales are probably too malty to style but I like malty so it works for me.Edit: I've actually considered cutting the pale malt with some pilsner for American styles to reduce the maltiness a bit.

[Beejus McReejus]

I got on a kick of MO a few years back. But blktre's inexpensive Canadian has me convinced.

[ScottS]

Good topic. I always get confused trying to figure out what base malt I should be using. And then I get confused when trying to sort out all of the options on what to buy. I usually guess, and it usually tastes good, so I think I'm doing ok. :)But I still rather understand and make an educated decision.

[BlKtRe]

Edit: I've actually considered cutting the pale malt with some pilsner for American styles to reduce the maltiness a bit.

This. I do it when I'm running short. Works very well.

But blktre's inexpensive Canadian has me convinced.

Its a nice malt, and cheap compared! The only thing about Rahr is its a tad more expensive since it only comes in a 50# sak vs 55#.

[lowendfrequency]

I'm a bit odd in my base malt preferences in the fact that I give my priority to matching my country of origin to the style, more-so than I do to matching the malt variety to the style. If I'm brewing a Belgian beer, then I need Belgian malt. Wether it is pale malt or pilsner matters less to me, as long as it's sourced from Belgium. Now this isn't to say that it doesn't make a difference. In fact, I think the malt type makes an even bigger difference than country of origin. It's just one of those weird things that I get hung up on. To be fair, I tend to favor pilsner as a base malt almost always even for my belgian, british and american ales. I find it to be cleaner, easier to control my color and that it adds a dimension of complexity to an otherwise standard ale. Since I'm almost always using Pilsner, the only way for me to get more style specific is through my country of origin. But hey, that's just me and there's always exceptions.

[MtnBrewer]

This. I do it when I'm running short. Works very well.

Can you recommend a ratio of pale to pilsner to use? I might give it a try soon as I have some Americans coming up on my schedule.

[djinkc]

My orders with LBG group buys have been close to Blktre's. I'm sold on Canada Malting 2-row/Pale Ale malts. Still playing around with different UK malts but usually go back to TF Maris Otter. Best Malz Pils is all I've used for Pils in the last few years. I do have a couple bags of Canada Malting Pils that haven't made it to the tap yet. I'm interested to see how it holds up to Continental Pils.

[Deerslyr]

I'll admit that I generally buy 2 Row and build beers around it. I purchased a bag of MO to use before, but mostly 2 Row. It works generally for me as I mostly brew Cream Ale, IPA's, and Wheat Beer. Other styles that I have brewed "one off" tend to also use 2 Row for the base. I suppose if I get into lagers (now that I have a ferm chamber) I would look at other base grains.

[Big Nake]

I will buy pilsner malts for pilsners and/or American Lagers. I have also used plain old domestic 2-row for a gold lager and it came out just fine. Yes, I can tell a slight difference and when I have used something like Durst Turbo Pils, the results were very nice. I use Briess or Rahr domestic pale malt for anything "American" like an APA, Blonde Ale, Cream Ale, Amber, Red, etc. I try to use anything English that I can get my hands on (Simpson's, Munton's, Baird... the last one I got was called "Pauls Malt"). I find that the English Malts give you a deeper, richer, maltier base and the one time I tried making an English Ale with domestic malts (along with English Kent & Styrian hops and either 1099, 1968 or 1028), I was disappointed because the beer came out thin. Definitely some personal preference here.

[drewseslu]

I use Rahr Pale Ale and Premium Pilsner malts for most of my base. (Cargill 2 Row, a custom blend, at the other brewery) With the right treatment in the brewhouse, complimentary grains and fermentation profile those malts can yield very convincing Belgian, English, Czech/German and, of course, American styles.

[BlKtRe]

Can you recommend a ratio of pale to pilsner to use? I might give it a try soon as I have some Americans coming up on my schedule.

I usually shoot for a 50/50 or 60/40 English:Pils ratio. Depends on how much I have on hand. Ive found that this will still give you a nice malt profile to along with all those hops!

[MtnBrewer]

I usually shoot for a 50/50 or 60/40 English:Pils ratio. Depends on how much I have on hand. Ive found that this will still give you a nice malt profile to along with all those hops!

Thanks! Turns out I'm actually going to buy a sack of American malt from a local maltster just to try it out. And by "local" I mean Colorado. Some of the guys in the club have been using this guy's malt and really like it. If we buy 1000 lbs. at a time, we can get $0.65/lb. Strangebrewer is doing a barrel brew and we need about 5 sacks of base malt, which we're going to get from this local guy. So I figured while I was at it, I'd just pick one up too to check it out.

[BlKtRe]

Thanks! Turns out I'm actually going to buy a sack of American malt from a local maltster just to try it out. And by "local" I mean Colorado. Some of the guys in the club have been using this guy's malt and really like it. If we buy 1000 lbs. at a time, we can get $0.65/lb. Strangebrewer is doing a barrel brew and we need about 5 sacks of base malt, which we're going to get from this local guy. So I figured while I was at it, I'd just pick one up too to check it out.

So its grown and malted locally (Colorado)? Have you sampled beers using this malt? Sounds very interesting indeed. Good luck on the barrel brew. Ours will be ready for the barrel next week and get sickified.

[MtnBrewer]

So its grown and malted locally (Colorado)? Have you sampled beers using this malt? Sounds very interesting indeed. Good luck on the barrel brew. Ours will be ready for the barrel next week and get sickified.

Correct. It's a local maltster and my understanding is that it's grown here also. I don't know the guy myself but the club has already done a couple of group buys from him and I've heard nothing but good things about the malt. I've probably had beers made with this malt but nobody said, "Hey try this. This is the local malt we've been using." So I don't really know. Some of the guys have picked up some ribbons with it.The barrel is a whiskey barrel (Buffalo Trace) that SB got for free. We're going to do a barley wine in a few weeks. Knowing him, I'm sure he wouldn't have a problem if it soured after a few batches.

[3rd party JKor]

If you're trying to be true to style, it makes sense to use the malts from the place where the style originated. If you just want tasty beer, it's not necessary. For most styles, the base malt isn't going to matter to much.I'll also concur on the Canadian Pale, it's has a really nice malty flavor. It's currently running $25/55# from North Country Malt. For that price you can't go wrong. I just got a couple of sacks last week, along with a couple of sacks of Thomas Fawcett MO. I might do a direct comparison between the two this year.