15 replies to this topic

[BarelyBrews]

My first five gallon or so batch (my step away from mr.beer kits)was an open-fermentation.Turned out great , and i still did not really know that much.Doubt i even used a hydrometer.Anyhow, i watched NB's last episode this week about open fermentations.Not on my schedule anytime soon, but i love to experiment . Anyone else watch it? I do love my weekly episodes sent to me.This weeks is episode #4.https://www.brewingtv.com/Edit. I used a top cloth as a cover, but basically an open fermentation.I did not own a lid.

Edited by Kegdude, 03 June 2010 - 06:52 PM.

[chuck_d]

Who says you need a cover?Open fermenters at Trumer:

[Jimmy James]

It's on my list to do this sometime soon, I could ferment in our guest bathroom and put a towel by the bottom of the door so flies don't get in. Fruit flies home in on CO2 and will dive-bomb your fermentation if you don't have some sort of cover.

[jammer]

A while back Basser posted a link from the Sierra Nevada site that showed the open fermenters in time-lapse action. I think it was the Bigfoot fermenters. Was way cool.https://www.sierranevada.com/beers/bigfoot.html Click on the Watch Bigfoot being made pic.ETA: I never tire of this video.

[DigitalTaper]

Who says you need a cover?Open fermenters at Trumer:

Was the room in a positive pressure filtered environment? I would bet the farm on Yes. Many of the pro's do ferment in open vessels, but the rooms are designed for the process. Air filters and floors/walls that can be washed down, air blows out when the door is opened rather than being sucked in ... etc. There is a brewpub in my hometown that always produced musty beers, a house flavor that was tolerable in the red and stout, but down right nasty and flawed in their lager attempts. The last time I was home one of the staff showed me their fermentation room - semi open fermenters with no type of blow off tube. This is clearly the cause for their beer always tasting like the old warehouse it's produced in.Maybe Basser can fill us in on Sierra Nevada's process. Their video of the Big Foot fermenting in the open frequenters is awsome!

[DigitalTaper]

https://www.sierrane...html#kellerweisThis Kellerweis article at SN talks about the open fermenter. Very Cool.

" It was there they realized the advantages of making wheat beer using the traditional system of open fermentation. ...... Most modern brewery fermentation takes place in closed, stainless-steel tanks; this method is efficient, quick and clean. In closed tanks, however, the yeast doesn’t have the opportunity to coax as much complexity from the fermenting beer. Using shallow open fermentation, the yeast has space to build layers of flavors and aroma that would otherwise be impossible. ......"

[Slainte]

chuck_d, awesome pic. I bet Trumer sterile filters their beer as well, right?It's important to mention why breweries may use an open fermentation. Normally commercial breweries use tall conical tanks for fermenters. The tall vertical height reduces esters in the finished beer due to the increased pressure on the fermenting yeast. The idea with open fermention is the use of very shallow and open tanks. Since they are shallower, pressure is on the yeast is reduced, increasing ester production.Open fermentation in a homebrewery is generally a bad idea mainly because you don't gain anything except an increased sanitation risk. There is no difference between using an airlock and putting a towel over the bucket (or no towel). The vertical height of the fermenting beer remains the same, and there is virtually no pressure change on the top of the fermenting beer. Do you know how much pressure it takes to bubble the little plastic piece in the airlock? Practically nothing at all.I'd say it's not worth your time, but if you really want to tell, brew a 10 gallon batch and ferment side by side, airlock on one.

[chuck_d]

Sorry, yeah, I should have thrown a little wink in there as it was kind of joke. I tend to under-use emoticons. The room is well controlled, but at the same time they still let you hang your head over the fermenters and we all exhale some microbes. Those open fermenters are cylindroconical tanks. So they aren't the shallow flat-bottom tanks that one might think of when thinking of open fermentation. You can have a lid and still be doing open fermentation. When we used open fermenters at Doemens they were just SS rectangular tanks and after filling and pitching them we just put a loose fitting lid on top. I basically do open fermentation in my plastic buckets since half the time I can't get a good enough seal to make the airlock bubble.I don't know that Trumer does sterile filtration but like most professional breweries I'm almost certain they filter (need to go back through more photos to jog my memory, it all starts to blend in your mind after a dozen brewery tours in a week). But they might just be doing DE filtration which is very common, not sure if they have a Profi system or something like that. They might pasteurize instead, either flash or in-bottle. We visited Trumer the day before graduation, so we were kind of done taking notes at that point. Actually, once on the tour taking notes was kind of out the window :huh:I'm putting together some "brewery tours" in photos and video for my blog, and this one is definitely high on the list for being posted early, so I'll definitely let you all know about it, but to tide you over here are a couple extra shots of the fermenters...Conical Bottom:Fermentation Chamber:Check out that railing... it's functional piping.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

What's the deal with the levels going up and down a few times? I would expect to see the tank get filled, then see the foam kick up and back down again. Then drain the tank.

[3rd party JKor]

What's the deal with the levels going up and down a few times? I would expect to see the tank get filled, then see the foam kick up and back down again. Then drain the tank.

Maybe the first part was oxygenation?

[jayb151]

I've actually been doing open fermentations on some of my beers. I have a Sanke that I cut the top off and now I can't make a lid that fits air-tight! I just fashioned a plexy-glass top with a small hole that I place an upside-down cup on. I didn't think about it, but the fermentation looked exactly like the one from the new episode of Brewing TV.

[SchwanzBrewer]

The latest episode of brewing TV has the completed open fermented beer the "Topless Hefe" and they do a taste test. I would really like to try this. I'm thinking I should make a 10 gallon hefe and split the batch between a carboy and a bucket and taste test the results. The only problem is that I am afraid of the stink. I would have to move my swamp cooler into the back room and close the door. Right now I ferment in the hall closet in the family room so that would definitely be a no go. Anyone have a good hefeweizen recipe? I've not tried many wheat beers. The recipe in the episode is:

Five gallons, partial-mashOG: 1.048IBU: 16grist: * 1.5 lbs Weyermann Pale Wheat * 1 lb German Munich (20 EBC)mash: multi-temp infusion * 100 F for 5" * 122 F for 10" * 152 F for 30"boil additions: * 3 lbs wheat malt syrup @ 60" * 0.5 oz Palisade (plug, 9%) @ 60" * 3 lbs wheat malt syrup @ 15"Second krausen: creamy and activefermentation: * Wyeast 3068 Weihenstephan Weizen * primary: an uncovered 8 gallon bucket o 3 days @ 64 F + 18 hours: flecks of foam, aroma is worty + 20 hours: first krausen, clove and plastic aroma + 22 hours: krausen is scuzzy; clove, ripe banana, and bread dough + 24 hours: skimmed krausen (discarded) and roused, SG 1.042 + 26 hours: second krausen; bubblegum, clove, cinnamon + 48 hours: krausen is creamy and very active; banana cream pie; skimmed krausen (saved) and roused; SG 1.028 + 72 hours: krausen still creamy but no longer bubbling; cloves back; SG 1.018, rack to closed secondary * 7 days @ 64 F in an airlocked 5 gallon carboy, SG 1.012 * crash cool 3 days * package, carb it high, and drink it like you brewed it

I guess for an AG brew you would just substitute 7 lbs wheat malt (total).So it would be:OG: 1.048 (5 gallons)IBU's: 16Grains:7# wheat1# munich0.5oz Palisades 9%(60) (I will need a substitute, but I can't remember all the hops I have on hand)Wyeast 3068 Weihenstephan WeizenPretty simple recipe.Cheers,Rich

Edited by rcemech, 17 June 2010 - 12:46 PM.

[SchwanzBrewer]

OK. I have on hand:WilliametteMt HoodCascadeGr MagnumColumbusUS GoldingsSaazRoughly a pound of each of those in pellets.What should I substitute for the Palisade?Cheers,Rich

[davelew]

OG: 1.048 (5 gallons)IBU's: 16Grains:7# wheat1# munich0.5oz Palisades 9%(60) (I will need a substitute, but I can't remember all the hops I have on hand)Wyeast 3068 Weihenstephan Weizen

Wheat tends to stick in the mash. If you do this recipe with 87% wheat, I'd recommend some rice hulls or something else to jeep your mash from turning into jointing compound. Otherwise you could have a very frustrating brew day. Most wheat malts are 50/50 or 60/40 ratios of wheat to 2-row or pilsener, because the extract makers can;t handle a mash of 100% wheat. The classic ratio for German wheat beers is 60/40 wheat to pilsener. My suggestion for a wheat beer recipe is:6 pounds wheat4 pounds pilsener0.5oz Saaz (60 min)Multi-step infusion mash (110dF for Ferulic acid, 130dF to degrade beta-glucans, 150dF for saccharification). You can also do a single temperature, and probably get the same results, but I like to geek out over multiple step mashes with German beers.Wyeast 3068 (just the propagator smack-pack, no starter, and not the activator pack; you want to underpitch this yeast)Ferment in the 70dF to 75dF range. If you ferment in the 60s, you won't get the flavor profile you want from the yeast.

[SchwanzBrewer]

Wheat tends to stick in the mash. If you do this recipe with 87% wheat, I'd recommend some rice hulls or something else to jeep your mash from turning into jointing compound. Otherwise you could have a very frustrating brew day. Most wheat malts are 50/50 or 60/40 ratios of wheat to 2-row or pilsener, because the extract makers can;t handle a mash of 100% wheat. The classic ratio for German wheat beers is 60/40 wheat to pilsener. My suggestion for a wheat beer recipe is:6 pounds wheat4 pounds pilsener0.5oz Saaz (60 min)Multi-step infusion mash (110dF for Ferulic acid, 130dF to degrade beta-glucans, 150dF for saccharification). You can also do a single temperature, and probably get the same results, but I like to geek out over multiple step mashes with German beers.Wyeast 3068 (just the propagator smack-pack, no starter, and not the activator pack; you want to underpitch this yeast)Ferment in the 70dF to 75dF range. If you ferment in the 60s, you won't get the flavor profile you want from the yeast.

I have never done a multistep mash, don't know how, and I batch sparge. So I think I would do a single step. I would think that they have a pound of munich in there to get a little more malt flavor for a reason, so why not 5lb wheat, 4 lb pils, 1 lb munich? Do i still need rice hulls (I have never had a stuck sparge, my set up is slick).BTW: the GF put the kibosh on doing an open fermentation. She's worried about stinking up the house.Cheers,Rich

[SchwanzBrewer]

I guess I'll have to wait till I get home and calculate the malt yields to get the proper OG in beersmith, I couldn't find a pilsner number.Cheers,Rich