16 replies to this topic

[djinkc]

What really defines the difference? I'm having a little taster of a Steam Schwarz for a nightcap. Actually, it is mostly the same as a porter. I have a porter I like to brew with 2112 when I make a run on that yeast. This time I didn't bother looking at my old recipes for the porter. After the fact, the recipe for the Schwarz is not all that different from the out of style porter. Malt, hops, yeast?

[EWW]

I always thought that a true schwartz had less of a roast profile due to using debittered/dehusked roast malts ... Basically a pils with a healthy dose of carafa special type malts. I've always gotten more body and a more aggressive roast/chocolate malt profile from a good porter. I could be wrong about that ... I don't typically brew stricly to style.

[BrewerGeorge]

EWW is right. Schwarz should have almost no roast character at all, just color. Definitely no roast aroma, but a tiny bit of roasty taste is okay. Porter should be all about roast or even beyond via the use of patent. A schwartz should have a white head, while porter is most likely tannish - again from patent. Lots more English yeast character is allowed in porter as well, while schwarz should be clean.

[cavman]

EWW is right. Schwarz should have almost no roast character at all, just color. Definitely no roast aroma, but a tiny bit of roasty taste is okay. Porter should be all about roast or even beyond via the use of patent. A schwartz should have a white head, while porter is most likely tannish - again from patent. Lots more English yeast character is allowed in porter as well, while schwarz should be clean.

I consider porters more about chocolate with some roast, stout is about the roast. As for clean, baltic porters would argue. But yes a Schwarz is different than a porter, both very good beer styles when done right though. But as homebrewers we aren't restricted now are we?

[BrewerGeorge]

I consider porters more about chocolate with some roast, stout is about the roast. As for clean, baltic porters would argue. But yes a Schwarz is different than a porter, both very good beer styles when done right though. But as homebrewers we aren't restricted now are we?

Agree there is a lot of overlap between porter and stout, but in my own mind I think porter = patent while stout = roasted unmalted barley. Tan head porter, white head stout. Baltic porters don't count.

[ChefLamont]

To me there is a moderate to big difference in mouthfeel too. While they definitely dont need to be chewy, I think there should be some decent amount of mouthfeel to a porter while a schwarz should be a lighter or thinner mouthfeel. I know that it can get a little blurry in the middle, but on average, there should be a diff.

[Howie]

And caramel. Porters can have a lot of caramel and/or toasty flavors. Not so much with a Schwarz. Again, a traditional version is basically designed to be a black pils.

[BlKtRe]

Scwhartz can be cleaner and possibly drier due to lager yeast vs a porter being more patent and estery due to ale yeasts....

[Stout_fan]

Scwhartz can be cleaner and possibly drier due to lager yeast vs a porter being more patent and estery due to ale yeasts....

Beat me to it.

[Jimmy James]

Gordon Biersch makes an excellent Schwarz IMO and they've had it on tap recently at the location around here so I fill my growler up from time-to-time with it. I am not sure if that beer ever makes it onto store shelves though. At any rate, if I were to be blind-folded and someone put that Schwarz into my hand I'd have a very tough time imagining it was a dark beer. It tastes like a super clean cross between a helles bock and alt or something along those lines. There is no flavor that really stands out in the best examples of Schwarz that I can remember. It seems like they are very well-balanced.

[Iraq Lobstah]

I like Carafa II for Schwartz... Good carmel flavors, color, without the overbearing flavors of roasted barley.. Not that its a bad thing, but just not in German Black Lager. RB is hoever appropiate in Porters.

[MtnBrewer]

Scwhartz can be cleaner and possibly drier due to lager yeast vs a porter being more patent and estery due to ale yeasts....

Agreed on the lager yeast. Funny how everybody's take on porter is different. I don't make that many but I usually go with more chocolate in a porter whereas stouts get BP and/or RB. Maybe I'm really making a stout and calling it a porter.

[Jimmy James]

Agreed on the lager yeast. Funny how everybody's take on porter is different. I don't make that many but I usually go with more chocolate in a porter whereas stouts get BP and/or RB. Maybe I'm really making a stout and calling it a porter.

That's cuz you're brewing the old porter. The new porter has tons of black malts, 100+ IBU and pours like turkish coffee

[MtnBrewer]

That's cuz you're brewing the old porter. The new porter has tons of black malts, 100+ IBU and pours like turkish coffee

I've made that one too. Dry hopped with 4 oz. of Cascade.

[djinkc]

Interesting replies, thanks. I've always thought/felt Stouts had more of a statement from BP/RB than porters. If I use those at all in a porter it's barely in the grainbill.The psuedo Schwarz11.5gal15# Gr. Pils4# Gr. Munich2# Carafa3.25# RBLots of Hersbrucker and PerleI think the Munich probably took it a little far with maltiness and of course the 2112 threw some esters that a true lager yeast wouldn't. Probably should have left out the RB too. Nice beer though. I'll call it a porter for the rest of the keg. Guess I ought to be using more lager yeast - once every 25 years doesn't really cut it.The last Porter I made with 211211.5 gal20# Pale Ale malt1/2# Carastan1/2# C401/2# C1201/4# Special B1# Carafa2 oz BPMagnum and Mt. HoodWeird beer early - for me it needs a month of cold conditioning then I like it.The Baltic I made with 2112 is a different story. Damn - about gone too.

[Stout_fan]

... Maybe I'm really making a stout and calling it a porter.

interesting revelation.

Edited by Stout_fan, 26 May 2010 - 05:16 AM.

[djinkc]

interesting revelation.

And I have a long memory